*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

[friet]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Christian,

If were still in one piece after the GRA event (if it happens), well certainly go for the FRA event as well.

Cheers,

Frank

[maddox]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

70mm Frank, 70 mm...

[friet]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Mario,

Thats what we have lying around....but were looking to go for 80 or 90mm....talk to Jan/Geert...

And by the way, our home brewn valve works !!!!
Geert has assembled the weapon in the chassis again, and it works !

Now well concentrate on the improved electronics and drive system (new wheels)

Cheers,

Frank

[Guest]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Judging fights is a tough job and the judges will never please everyone all the time. Mostly i think they get it right. But in these cases i passionately believe they got it wrong:

earliest first:

Mortis V Recyclopse

I loved recyclopse but this decision was ultimately very surpsing and incorrect. The decision must have been loaded against mortis because they were far more aggressive, got under recyclopse numerous times (recyclopse never got under mortis once) and they bossed the whole fight. What happened judges? Still who won pleased me.

Gravedigger V Stegasawus

Again pleased with the decision as my favourite went through, but it was definately wrong. The robots were pushing each other equally and the only two good attacks were from gravedigger (the flips). At one time steg was on its side and would not have come back down had matilda not intervened. The judges got it incorrect on aggression!

101 V Hypnodisc

Right. Just.

Stinger V Panic attack

Again a robot bosses a fight only to go out, very dubious indeed. Perhaps the worst decision ever.

Razer V Tornado

Cage shouldnt have been on anyway so wrong, Razer had them on the pit anyway come the end.

Mute V Storm 2 (new bloods)

Wrong, like Gravedigger v steg, equal pushing match then two very good attacks from one side and they somehow lose. How do they do it?

Storm 2 V Typhoon 2

Wrong, aggression on such a scale should override any superficial damage created. Decisions should not be loaded at all.

And finally...

Mute V Judgeshred 3

Worst decision ever, tying with panic v stinger. Judge: all the aggresion, all the damage, all the style, all the control and they somehow lose. What they didnt show you on TV was numerous attacks from Mute with the rear flipper, however these attacks were pathetic compared to judge throwing mute about and never once was the judge overturned. Abosulutely hopeless decision, that should constitute a written apology to team judge shred.

[dinowarrior]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Oh, and

Chaos 2 vs Wild Thing-Correct
Or at least, sending Chaos 2 through was correct. Calling it unanamous (or however its spelt) was NOT!

[dinowarrior]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

And George, for the final inferno time...

1;Tornados cage wasnt breaching any rules, so it SHOULD have been allowed

2;Tornado wasnt over the pit, Razer was holding it there. When Tornado WAS over the pit, it drove back out.

I dont know how clearer Im supposed to make this.

[Guest]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Im very well aware of the rules on this occasion, and that the cage was allowed. However, as with the arguments on the old RW official forum, there are many people including myself who simply believe that the cage was wrong, hence the decision. I seriously do not want to bring this up, so can we please leave it that i think it was wrong, and you dont. Cheers.

p.s. Unanamous = unanimous. Pretty close attempt.

[lex]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Hmmm... I never did understand the objections to Tornados mod for the Razer fight- since it was declared and legal, it would make about as much sense for me to continually protest that flippers are wrong, or crushers or any other legal weapon or feature on a robot was wrong. Do you mean somehow morally wrong? Ach well, if thats the way you feel...
As to the pit, my way of looking at that is that going down the pit isnt the reason you lose; you lose because youre immobilised down there. If (say) Cassius 2 had gone in the right way to pogo out, it couldve continued fighting. Also, Tornado was being held over the pit. A count would only start once Razer let go- but even then if Tornado had driven off before being counted out... As it was, assuming cease was called when it appeared to be, it was too late to count em out anyway, even if they had been stuck. With the greatest respect, if you dont want folk to contest your view on this, dont bring it up yourself! ;o)
Apart from that though George I agree with your assessments almost to the word- although I dont feel as strongly about the Panic vs Stinger fight. Judging Stinger must be tricky- its a counter-puncher thats almost bound to hit you as you go in. I do think damage should count for more- but I agree completely that superficial damage shouldnt override eveything else. Although many decisions were more dramatically bizarre, I found the T2 vs Darke Destroyer decision particularly disheartening...

[fluppet]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

There are two different issues here. One is the judges watching a different fight from the rest of the world, and the other is whether the fight itself was fair.

Inconsistent decisions about whether a stacked robot is out usually come under the latter category, although its interesting that in this case the judges got involved. There have been as many cases where house robot behaviour (or lack thereof) has caused an unfair result as there have been times when the judges were random.

Personally I think the judges were right to give Tornado the result in season 6; I just feel Razer should have been freed from the angle grinder sooner. (Tornado won the fight, but that shouldnt have been the fight that happened.) In their next meeting both the judges and the house roboteers (or at least, the director) were in their own little world.

The Typhoon 2/Storm 2 final was, again, influenced by the behaviour (or lack thereof) of the house robots as much as by the judges. Storm 2 vs Supernova was just a case of left hand... right hand.

The ACW cage on Tornado was contentious partly because (according, IIRC, to reports on the Razer site at the time) team Razer had been assured on a number of occasions that it was allowed in the current competition (at the time) but wouldnt be allowed in the future. Of course, its *not* allowed now, but only after several fights between the two and Razers probable retirement. It could be argued (and I dont want to get involved) that this meant the team didnt spend as much development effort countering it as they might have done. Plus there was a dodgy judges decision the first time the ACW was used; it all led to the kind of thing we dont really need, in this sport, and the teams werent really to blame for any of it.

The Mortis/Recyclopse fight still rankles - I still have vague ties to Cambridge, but Id only recently graduated when that happened. Rob didnt exactly represent the University in the manner everyone might have liked on that occasion, but I have to agree with the source of his indignation (and approve of Rexs attitude to the sport). Thats when I lost faith in the judges.

The number of fight outcomes which have changed primarily because Matildas tail wont stay out of the way isnt funny. Its one of the main reasons I feel the FRA is better without house robots - and certainly without ones which are better controlled (and fairer) than Mentorns.

Of course, if robots werent trashed by random house robot activity, and if random judging didnt cost people prize money, it probably wouldnt matter. Mind you, its not usually the competitors who rant about this kind of stuff - as Paul says, its the fans like myself. (Mind you, I dont feel Im trying to impose my viewpoint [as distinct from facts about what happened] on anyone - and Im sorry if I ever give that impression; Im just trying to get as much detail about a complex situation as possible to ensure the same cant happen to me when I eventually compete!)

People have their favourites, be they fans or roboteers, and fight judging will always be subjective. If youre wanting a robot to win, its hard not to be biased about its performance. Disagreements are going to happen; its just a pity that many judging decisions seem to be affected not just by favouritism but also by a limited acquisition of the facts. I also cant feel that getting the audience to shout judge, judge, judge (as the warm-up act at Extreme 2 were doing, at least) is conducive to getting a measured, well thought-out conclusion.

It just goes to show that the only safe way to win is to completely disable the opponent - winning on points is always risky, and arguably thats as it should be.

--
Fluppet

[Guest]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

John - excellent points raised. Firstly, i did not bring up the Tornado/Razer fight, it has already been mentioned several times in this post above, but i just added my view. If you dont agree with it, thats fair enough. Peace.
Secondly, i agree with your slant on the T2/Darke Destroyer fight, i should have added that to my list. All T2 aggression and no damage from Darke Destroyer meant that the decision should obviously have gone the other way - definately wrong, but it didnt influence anything major so oh well.

Andrew - definately with you on the House Robot intervention, more often than not the Hrs ruin great fights or simply the method in which they intervene is inconsistent - they seem to have a different agenda for every fight. I would be more comfortable if definate decisions were made on Hr intervention in future.

[typhoon_driver]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

perhaps different drivers for the house robots each time are to blame?

Series 7 it was all students and not the regular team controlling them. Series 6 and at extreme there were a variety of drivers which included many roboteers (although sadly i never had time to have a go :sad

just a suggestion

[pcbore]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Different drivers doesnt excuse the way they seem to go one way or another... There should be set guide-lines for when they are and arent allowed to do something.

[codename_47]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

We know the house robots arent really interested in whats fair, what robot SHOULD be attacked, and what robot shouldnt.....

Theyre controlled by the director to make sure they make the best television possible....

And in a way, since were still talking about some of the fights...I guess they served their purpose! :wink:

Hmmmmmmmmmm

[steve_c]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

quoteThe Mortis/Recyclopse fight still rankles - Thats when I lost faith in the judges./quote

Surely that means you never had faith in the judges, given that was the first ever judges decision? (and still the worst IMO, followed by Stinger/Chaos 2 and Storm 2/Typhoon)

quoteAndrew - definately with you on the House Robot intervention, more often than not the Hrs ruin great fights or simply the method in which they intervene is inconsistent - they seem to have a different agenda for every fight. I would be more comfortable if definate decisions were made on Hr intervention in future./quote

I would too, but it would never happen because it just wouldnt suit Mentorns manipulative habits - even though I can only recall a handful of deliberate and unjust house robot interventions that rigged the outcome of the fight. Napalm/Pandamonium (Napalm=celeb team), Roadblock/King B (winner goes to grand final, Roadblock=top seed), and Behemoth/Chompalot (winner fights Pussycat=celeb team, Chompalot much weaker opponent than Behemoth - allegedly...)

And of course, because RW is dead anyway.

[dinowarrior]

*spoilers* Can we stick the review in this thread pl

Stinger vs Chaos 2 was the correct decition because Stinger shouldnt have been there in the first place. End of Story!