How could I Improve pt 2

[corsair_lightning]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

After me realizing that there won't be another major I can enter for a while...

Cyrilium Mach 4 (Testing)
Weight: 100kg
Shape: Pretty much a lower version of Warrior SKF.
Colour: Gold with a red flipper.
Dimensions: 95cm x 75cm x 20cm
Drive: 2 36v LEM-130 motors powered by 10x 36v A123 Battlepacks.
Locomotion: 2 solid vulkanized rubber wheels with aluminum boron carbide hubs.
Armour: 6.5mm titanium/vanadium alloy for everything, except for the spinning rim, which is 6mm hardox, and the flipper, which is 5.5mm titanium/vanadium alloy..
Speed: 15mph
Ground Clearance: 0mm at front, and 5mm at sides and rear.
Turning Circle: 0m
Weapon: The weapon is a powerful 37kg spinning rim with 3 1kg hardox teeth, powered by a 36v LEM-170 motor. The spinning rim is an exact half-copy of the one used on the original MDU., and therefore it should put out about 100kj. However, unlike MDU, the spinning rim, via a double clutch, can transfer its kinetic energy either to the front flipper, thereby flipping an opponent a metre into the air, or to the drive, which can produce a maximum speed of 30mph.
Srimech: The robot is invertible, however the flipper can self-right it if need be.
Strength: Um... Infinite flips?
Weakness: Stuff I don't know about.
Bio: Cyrilium returns to the original name, but now contains a revised shape ala Son of Ripper X/Next Stop, Jupiter. With infinite flips, tough armour, and a half-duplicate of MDU's spinning rim, I've finally removed the weak armour, and several other faults.

[kodster]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

I hate it when people don't write battles properly.

This is not to Mark, or Elliot, or anyone one person in particular. This is to anybody who is having problems writing a battle.

Robot Wars S7 Arena, normal house bots.

----

Gabriel V vs. Gehenna

From Pontefract, Gabriel V!

One of the most original vapourbots out there. For a wedge. Has a nose cone and two giant ears to help keep opponents on the wedge, and to help with self-righting. The main weapon is a front-hinged flipper that can lift nearly 3 tonnes and has 30 full power flips. On either side of the wedge are two spikes made of S7 tool steel which also help with keeping bots on its wedge. They can also thwack using the decent drivetrain of Gabriel V. It's 4mm Hardox armoured and has a thick steel chassis, but it'll run out of flips eventually, and its base armour is weak.

From Shrewsbury in Shropshire, Gehenna!

Not just a metal reference. It's an angled titanium/vanadium alloy wedge (8mm front, 6mm elsewhere) with a 4mm Hardox front-hinged flipper for quick and powerful flips. It also has an edge to stop opponent going over the wedge of it. Gehenna also has a second weapon, a 10kg horizontal spinning bar that can dish out 22kJ. It may not seem like a lot, but you try taking a shot like that and come out of it okay. But like its opponent, it'll run out of flips, and it doesn't seem to have the most powerful drive here.

Roboteers, stand by...

Joey's tactics = Flip it, avoid the bar.
Andy's tactics = Go for the ears.

House robots for this battle are Shunt and Sgt. Bash.

3...
2...
1...
ACTIVATE!

And just like that, it's battle time! Gabriel V is the first on the attack, screaming out of its spot to...not collide with Gehenna? Joey turns his machine around, trying to find the wedge-shaped opponent that rocketed right by him, but the intention's clear now: Andy's after the ears! Thing is, he'll have to get to them! Joey's quick to turn Gabriel around, so Gehenna can't quite make use of its strategy that well. It turns a bit, trying to fake Gabriel out, but Joey doesn't take the bait and moves his machine forward, trying to force some action to happen here. Gehenna however moves past...exactly what Joey intended! Gabriel turns backwards and guns it at Gehenna's side before the latter can even tell what's happening! The nose cone flies under the side of Gehenna, but not at the correct angle, and Gehenna is blocked by one of Gabriel's own spikes! This means that Gehenna is unable to be fully pushed onto the wedge, so Gabriel takes him across the arena towards Shunt's CPZ. Gehenna tries to turn his machine backward, so as to attack with the bar, but it's futile, his wheels are completely off the ground and moments later Shunt has a new chew toy! Gabriel keeps him there as the axe of Shunt thunders down on Gehenna's armour, but is unable to make even a paint scratch! Gehenna's 4mm Hardox flipper armour is certainly protecting him here! Unsatisfied with this, Shunt continues to pound on Gehenna, but with little-to-no damage being caused with every hit, it's probably doing more damage to Shunt's axe shaft!

Eventually Refbot comes in to break things up, and Gabriel breaks off backwards and waits Gehenna to follow it. Gehenna doesn't look damaged one bit as it swerves around again, trying to fake Gabriel out. No dice. Joey's able to keep the nose cone on a linear path towards Gehenna. Andy's not done yet, though; all of a sudden, Gehenna does a 180 turn in front of Gabriel! Not expecting even that simple trick from Andy, Joey turns his machine the wrong way, and the rear is completely exposed! Quickly, Andy backs in with the spinning bar, on an angle so he hits one of the ears. That's over twice the power of Hypno-Disc there, and it quickly shows as both bots are flung away on impact and Gabriel V has a noticeable dent in one of his ears! Pleased with himself, Andy comes back in for another attack, but Joey's ready this time as Gabriel moves in before Gehenna can even turn, and now he gets fully under Gehenna and flips him! In fact, that's quite an understatement! Gehenna goes flying across the arena, due to the absurd power of Gabriel's front-hinged flipper, and upon impact bounces a bit before landing, thankfully right-side-up, near the flame pit. That was major points for Gabriel right there and that'll surely benefit him, should this drag on long enough to go a judges decision. Gehenna isn't keen on letting it go that far though as he moves back in to attack. The wedge meets the nose cone, and surprisingly, neither can get under the other. This gives Gehenna the advantage, as Gabriel's nose cone is pointy and it makes him tilt to one side, giving Gehenna access to that side! Despite this, it's not too advantageous for Gehenna at the moment, as he can't get under the skirt there. He can only push Gabriel a bit, who's trying to push back. Then Joey gets an idea and backs off, which sends Gehenna driving itself into the nearby wall! He backs off, but at that very moment the nose cone of Gabriel is back in attack mode and under Gehenna's blade, missing it completely...but Joey forgot that the ears are still in the way! The audience 'oooooh's at the resulting hit and the previously dented ear of Gabriel looks a bit more dented than before. Luckily for Joey, Gehenna stayed on the wedge.

The result is another extravagant flip from Gabriel as Gehenna is rocketed across the arena, and this time he doesn't get so lucky. He lands directly on his back, and Gabriel moves back in as the former self-rights. He doesn't self-right fast enough though and Gabriel gets under him again, from the rear. Just like the first time, however, he's unable to get fully under here, and so takes him back to Shunt's CPZ. Only now Gehenna's blade is spinning, since there's nothing in the way to stop it! Shunt greets Gehenna with an axe to the flipper, but Shunt might consider running its axe off pneumatics next time because that hit has done absolutely nothing to Gehenna's sturdy armour. Again and again it fires, but again and again it's done jack to Gehenna's armour. Upon the last hit, Gabriel moves forwards, and Gehenna is pushed...under Shunt's scoop! Excitedly, Joey guns the motors; Gabriel brings Gehenna right fully under Shunt. With a delighted chuckle Andy hits the flipper button and sends Shunt over onto his side! That's made a certain Sgt. Bash angry, as the sergeant blazes out of his CPZ in a fiery fury! Conveniently that's also the time Refbot reminds Gabriel to release Gehenna, and so Gabriel does, turning straight around to deal with the oncoming house robot. Old codgers, you're supposed to be fighting each other, not the house robots! But again, Refbot gets in the way and orders both sides to back off. The grumpy sergeant returns to his CPZ as Gabriel turns to face Gehenna again...and finds it gone again! Where'd it go? To attack Gabriel's ears! Without warning Gehenna zooms in from the right side, and Gabriel's way too late to avoid the assault on its ear! Major CRASH!

Not that bad of a hit at all! Both bots are flung from the tenacity of the hit, and that ear is looking mightily dented now. Realizing he's not going to win in the damage category if this keeps up, Joey heads for the pit release button, but Gehenna is hot on his collar! It diverts Gabriel's attention, and makes the tetrahedral wedge try to defend its ears again. It tries desperately to avoid the bar but a nice swerve from Gehenna has the bar clip one of the tool steel spikes, which causes a nice bit of sparks for the audience to enjoy. It has, however, slowed the bar somewhat, and Joey is brave enough to attack in the interlude. Gehenna can't escape in time and is wedged. Gabriel quickly slams him into Sgt. Bash's CPZ, where the house robot intends to make the AJRobotics member pay for flipping its buddy over! It grapples onto the wedge and starts crushing. Figuring Bash has the situation under control, Gabriel lets go of Gehenna and makes another race at the pit release button, this time succeeding as the all-too familiar siren wails throughout the arena, signaling the descent of the pit! Try as Bash might, he can't really even bend the wedge of Gehenna, just cause some paint scratches. He tries the flamethrower but no such luck there either, it's higher than Gehenna's max height! Now seriously ticked off, Bash whirls about, dragging Gehenna with it, and smacks it against the wall of the CPZ, as Gabriel cautiously approaches. Bash repeats this again using the other wall, and then finally lets Gehenna go. Gehenna's free to do as it pleases...but that's not what Gabriel wants, as it charges in! Gehenna backs off at the last second, and Gabriel slams his nose cone directly into the arena wall, just outside the CPZ...and it's stuck! Andy looks absolutely stunned, Joey horrified, as the arena wall has trapped the tetrahedral robot as it did with Spawn Again, years ago! Joey guns the motors in reverse, but still there's no way to escape! Gehenna watches this in disbelief, then turns around and slams into Gabriel!

Unfortunately for Gabriel, the previously dented ear now has a large gash in it! Unfortunately for Gehenna, that's freed Gabriel! Quickly Gehenna turns and moves in with the wedge, and actually succeeds in getting under Gabriel this time! Quickly it throws Gabriel over, into Bash's CPZ, and this time it's Gabriel who feels the wrath of the house robot! Too bad for Bash, though, his wrath isn't doing much as he's clamped the nose cone of the inverted Gabriel, but can't seem to do a thing to it! Gehenna makes the most of this time, however, and backs in with the spinning bar, smacking the other ear now and giving it a small dent. Joey isn't stupid; he's waiting for Bash to release him before attempting to right himself. Until then, however, Gehenna can get in as many blows as he wants! Another hit further dents the left-side ear. Then Bash lets go, but Gehenna pushes Gabriel against the wall. Joey wonders what he should do; he can't right himself properly there. At that point Refbot comes to count out Gabriel, who hasn't moved, and Joey makes his decision.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 -

WHOA! In a flash, Gabriel leaps into the air, his flipper propelling him, and crashes down onto the arena wall, and just manages to make it back onto his wheels. Unfortunately, there's Gehenna waiting for him and he smashes the right-side ear, ripping it wide open! Bash shunts Gabriel roughly, but can't seem to get under him and so emits a burst of flame as the tetrahedral bot shoves Gehenna out of the CPZ. Gehenna moves about, wanting another go at the ears, but apparently all the damage that's been caused to Gabriel has been superficial as Gabriel spins about, seemingly as capable and mobile as he was at the start of the match. This worries Andy, who tries the 180 turn tactic again. Amazingly he triumphs; Joey having been flustered with his bot in the CPZ not quite expecting the same trick again, and it gives Andy another shot at the ears, which he takes. More of the right-side ear comes off, including the whole rear panel of it! But, as said, only superficial damage, as Gabriel turns quickly and sneaks the nose cone under Gehenna's side! With only a little time remaining, Gabriel decides the pit is his best bet and tries to go for it, but he's not gotten under Gehenna fully, and he's not in line with the pit! Joey tries to turn and sneak the spikes under, but it's not happening!

10...9...8...7...

Gehenna gets the blade spinning again and fires the flipper in a vain attempt to escape.

6...5...4...

This time Gehenna does escape, and smacks the right-side spike, causing more sparks. However, Gabriel charges in after the blade slows and this time gets fully under Gehenna!

3...2...1...

Gabriel turns and screams towards the pit, and deposits Gehenna in...

CEASE!

...a bit too late! Sorry, Joey, but that was a bit short of a K.O.! Now, let's see the judges' scores!

Gabriel V - Gehenna
Strategy = 2/5 - 3/5
Style = 5/10 - 5/10
Control = 9/15 - 6/15
Aggression = 13/20 - 7/20
Damage = 8/25 - 17/25

Total = 37/75 - 38/75

It's a very close one, but in the end, Gehenna wins!

----

Now, what did you think of that battle?

[andrewj]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

Cyrilium Mach 4 (Active)
Weight: 100kg
Shape: Pretty much a lower version of Warrior SKF.
Colour: Gold with a red flipper.
Dimensions: 95cm x 75cm x 20cm
Drive: 2 36v LEM-130 motors powered by 10x 36v A123 Battlepacks.
Locomotion: 2 solid vulkanized rubber wheels with aluminum boron carbide hubs.
Armour: 6.5mm titanium/vanadium alloy for everything, except for the spinning rim, which is 6mm hardox, and the flipper, which is 5.5mm titanium/vanadium alloy..
Speed: 15mph
Ground Clearance: 0mm at front, and 5mm at sides and rear.
Turning Circle: 0m
Weapon: The weapon is a powerful 37kg spinning rim with 3 1kg hardox teeth, powered by a 36v LEM-170 motor at 4000rpm. The spinning rim is an exact half-copy of the one used on the original MDU., and therefore it should put out about 100kj. However, unlike MDU, the spinning rim, via a double clutch, can transfer its kinetic energy either to the front flipper, thereby flipping an opponent a metre into the air, or to the drive, which can produce a maximum speed of 30mph with the kinetic energy boost on.
Srimech: The robot is invertible, however the flipper can self-right it if need be.
Strength: Um... Infinite flips?
Weakness: Mainly the fact that, when the drive clutch in engaged to the disc, I only have about 5 seconds of extra power before the disc slows down. I'm very vulnerable when that happens.
Bio: Cyrilium returns to the original name, but now contains a revised shape ala Son of Ripper X/Next Stop, Jupiter. With infinite flips, tough armour, and a half-duplicate of MDU's spinning rim, I've finally removed the weak armour, and several other faults.
Win/Loss Ratio: N/A

Shape: You need to describe the shape of Warrior SKF or provide a picture. It€™s not a very well known robot.

Drive: Even I can see that there are some problems with the batteries. A123 cells are 3.3v each. The closest to 36v you can get is 36.3v. Therefore you need 11 cells per pack. That€™s just about all I understand, someone else should be able to help out with the rest (and probably correct me).

Ground Clearance: The ground clearance needs to be higher, especially for a full body spinner. I would advise at least 10mm.

Weapon: I don€™t understand this €œhalf-copy of MDU€ part. This set-up is nothing like MDU at all. Have you calculated the 100kJ output or is it just a guess? I like the double-clutch idea though, although it would probably be very difficult to do. Can you explain how it would work? The one metre flip and 30mph boost are also estimates, correct? Cool idea, but I think the system to make it work could be on the heavy side.

Weakness: For once, the weakness is worth putting down. However, I assume the 5 seconds is just a complete guess?

Overall: A couple of good ideas, although I personally preferred the older Cyrilium€™s. Talking of those, Cyrilium Mach 3 and American Oil don€™t appear to have fought yet. Why upgrade them? I very roughly put the spinner through the Cosmos Calculator and my figures looked very different to yours. A couple of things need fixing.

Kody: w00t! A masterclass in battle writing, awesome.

[corsair_lightning]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

The revised stats can be found here.

Both Cyrilium Mach 3 and American Oil didn't fight for different reasons. Cyrilium Mach 3 didn't fight because both everyone disliked be back when it was made, and it was a remake of the failed Cyrilium Mach 2, while American Oil was a remake of the even more failed Cyrilium 2.

The double clutch is pretty much a gear on a lever with a belt connected to the motor turning the disc. When the DRIVE button is pressed, the gear engages the drive via another gear connected to the drive. When the FLIPPER button is pressed, the gear engages the flipper via engaging a gear connected to a linear actuator. While the system does work, it actually is quite unreliable.

[kodster]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

If it's unreliable, why did you use it? Poor reliability killed Spawn Again, Razer, and a few others...

[corsair_lightning]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

I used it because I thought it was an innovative idea. But anyways, I'll remove it now.

[majinb]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

If it's unreliable, why did you use it? Poor reliability killed Spawn Again, Razer, and a few others...

I must point out though that going for a complex and on paper (and in practice sometimes) unreliable setup also did Razar lotsa good things, going for a complex and therefor relatively unreliable system over a more simple but less effective system can be worth it if the payoff is big enough.

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

Something to bear in mind too is; a robot with a complex and unreliable system won't always be a robot with a complex and unreliable system. If you keep going through battles losing because of your unreliability, you're going to look at your system and hone it, improve it, steadily iron out the weaknesses -weaknesses that a lot of the time are highlighted by losing a battle.

So although a complex and unreliable system may fail to shine or live up to potential intially, once you've eradicated the weakpoints, failings and bugs, you're still going to have a complex system, but you will have a reliable complex system that will be highly effective in battle.

Razer, as Martijn has pointed out, is a great example. They suffered mechanical breakdown regularly during the early series', but once they'd improved on the areas that had failed, they went on a great run that took them to the Series 5 title and almost the Series 6 one. That's on a par (with the exception of one battle) with Chaos 2, a machine that has never been branded unreliable.

So if you build a complex and unreliable system, don't just ditch it due to its shortcomings. Stick with it and understand it more, improve it, and then you'll have something that is really quite effective in the arena

[team_orr]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

*applauds jamie*

[majinb]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

Razer, as Martijn has pointed out, is a great example. They suffered mechanical breakdown regularly during the early series', but once they'd improved on the areas that had failed, they went on a great run that took them to the Series 5 title and almost the Series 6 one. That's on a par (with the exception of one battle) with Chaos 2, a machine that has never been branded unreliable.

well yeah, the Razer boys could have easily said this system is too unreliable, lets build a flipper after Series 4 or so and if they had done that, robotering in general would be a tad less interesting as a whole :P

[knightrous]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

Razer also took out the World Champs twice and had a 17 win streak at one point (Think it lost it when beaten by Pussycat in Extreme 2?).

[kodster]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

okay okay I'm wrong, jeez

No need to keep throwing facts at me :P

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

Lol, well you weren't really wrong Kody. You said poor reliability killed Spawn Again and Razer, which is true. Imagine if Razer hadn't broken down in Series 2, 3 and 4; it could have been the 4-time UK champion *drools at the thought*

I guess stating a system is unreliable in vapourbots is less justified though. For real robots, you don't really know whether or not the system is unreliable until that unreliablilty is highlighted through lost battles - then the problem can be rectified to minimise future downfalls. But if a vapourbot loses a battle due to stating its system is unreliable, the builder can easily say 'Ok I've upgraded the system and its no longer unreliable' in which case, there's not much to gain from stating that its unreliable in the first place. If your vapourbot breaks down, you can't take it back to the pits, remove the coverings and trace the component(s) that failed so you don't really learn why that unreliable sytem was unreliable and what you need to change to make it reliable in future fights.

Wow, I don't think reliable/unreliable has ever been typed so much in a post

[corsair_lightning]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

The system has now been revised with both a piece of metal with a slot to hold the lever in place, and with electric locking pins which act in a fraction of a second to hold down the lever and prevent it from jumping up and disengaging.

[joey_picus]

Re: How could I Improve pt 2

...Mark, do you actually know what you are talking about?