How could I Improve pt 2

[kodster]

How could I Improve pt 2

Sigh...guess Ill have to explain to you, then. :P

First off, the blades diameter and thickness contribute to the weight of the blade, which helps deliver more kJ.

The DISTANCE is from the center of the tooth to the center of the disc. The farther it is away, the more added force will be delivered. Usually this can be half the diameter, but not necessarily if you use longer teeth. Say for instance you have a 80cm diameter disc. The distance would be 40cm. :P

Next...LOTS OF PEOPLE SAY WHAT THEIR DISC IS MADE OF!!! You should know better than that. Right...I should just assume your disc is made of hardened goat cheese if you dont state a material, is that alright? :P Of course not.

Third, MOI is called the moment of inertia. I myself am not quite sure what its definition is, but its calculated thus:

weight of disc x radius of disc2

There, Im done explaining. :P

[dinowarrior]

How could I Improve pt 2

OK, first of all, I KNOW what the diameter and thickness are for, I just dont KNOW what they are on my disc. As I said before, no one told me I needed to know this. As I said before, its based around Minions disc, but without specs, I cant do anything. If you have any recommendations for the size of the robot, thatd be great, although Ive still not received the all-clear concerning said dimensions.

The distance...thanks for explaining, but once again, its no use at the moment without an aid.

Next...that is, as I continually say on YouTube, an EPIC FAIL! Did Adam Clark ever say what his flywheel was made of? No. Did we learn what Disc-O-Infernos 30 kilo, 3000rpm blade was constructed out of? No. Anything on Nightmare or Backlash? No! Hypno-Disc? Only that it wasnt plastic. You see? No one EVER mentions the material, and theyre professional roboteers. What chance do I have? I dont think even S3s disc was specified material wise, and she had a lot of stuff mentioned about hers. But do we assume HER blade is made out of goat cheese?

For the final point...again, no help until Ive got the all-clear.

Seriously, I NEED help here, help youre simply not giving, instead choosing to rub it in my face. Or at least thats what it feels like.

[kodster]

How could I Improve pt 2

Someone shoot me - I mean him... :P

All right, just WHY do you need to base it around MINIONS disc? Why is Minions so special? Just because Mega Masher is shaped (or was shaped) like Minion doesnt mean you have to have almost the exact same weapon! Hell, you could probably make it better than Minions! This is VAPOURBOTS for gods sakes: try stuff out!

And Chris, once again, this is VAPOURBOTS. Of course real roboteers out there wont right away tell you what the material is like, but on FRA, for people to draw an accurate force from your disc when theyre writing battles, they need to know quite a lot of stuff: including the material! And besides, a disc can be the same weight, but give off an entirely different kJ! A 10kg Hardox disc would be very small compared to a 10kg titanium disc, because of the metal used for it, and the titanium disc, in that regard would give out a greater force than that Hardox one. Remember, size and weight do count, but especially the material!

Now normally I wouldnt go this far into the specs, but youve been here for quite a while, Chris, and itd be best for you to lend an ear now and not tell people to not rub it in their face when all theyre doing is trying to give you advice. Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. :P

[joey_picus]

How could I Improve pt 2

...the material is only really a device for finding out the weight if you dont know it yourself, its not absolutely vital that you put both down.

The rest of what Kody said stands though.

[kodster]

How could I Improve pt 2

lol. If you had a 10kg titanium disc with holes in it so you can get a wider diameter, how would you be able to keep a 10kg Hardox disc in proportion without reducing diameter or thickness? And reducing those in that regard decreases power in an average hit between the two discs. Joey is sort of right, its not necessary to put it down...if youre a newbie or near that status. :P

Sorry, but I had to say that, Joey :P

Me and Joey would, however, like to ask what weight and diameter you want for your disc, Chris, and we can possibly work out something for you.

[joey_picus]

How could I Improve pt 2

Actually, Chris, I might have a solution; if you just tell us what weight and diameter you want this disc of mysterious origin to be, together with a rough figure youd be happy with for energy, someone more technically minded can conjure up one for you to make use of.

As an example, assuming a few things:

-if your height at the back is 50cm, and you want to hit lots of things, Id assume a 45cm diameter.

-I messed with materials until I had it made out of Ti, which put the weight up to 29.58lbs, about 13kg (give or take) which seems reasonable.

-The popup window actually calculates the moment of inertia for you, so you dont need to work that bit out yourself

-Matching this hypothetical disc with the rpm you gave (2000) gives me a figure of 7.4493 kilojoules. Accounting for teeth, which I cant be bothered to work in myself, errors in calculation, and the fact I left the distance to centre bit blank as I had no idea what it meant even with Kodys explaination :P, youre looking at about 10kjs for the lot, and voila, a nice easy disc that looks good on the wall and makes a nice conversation piece.

10kj should be enough to flip someone over, but if you want more, make it heavier (mess with the density in the popup window) or thicker (I assumed 0.75 inches because I could sense asking about it was a bad idea) but its really one of those things you have to learn youself through playing around with.

(Message edited by joeychevron on September 14, 200

[dinowarrior]

How could I Improve pt 2

Kody, shouting at me as if Im meant to know what half of that nonsense means is not helping in the slightest. You know FULL WELL why I was using a Minion-equse disc, so please dont pretend you dont. And if real roboteers dont reveal what their discs are like, what chance do I have? Right now, Id rather be listening to Joey, who is at least trying to help me, rather than punch my face in.

Joey, I managed to get mine at 7421.6 joules. My main problem is that I dont understand in the slightest what its asking for concerning the teeth.

(Message edited by Dinowarrior on September 14, 200

[razerdave]

How could I Improve pt 2

Basically Chris, the calculator wants to know what your teeth are made of, and their size, so that in can add up the weight and add its weight to the inertia of the disc, so you get a more accurate KJ output. Without the teeth, it gives you the energy from the disc, and only the disc. Add the teeth on and the KJ will go up.

Its like a peice of string. swing it around, and it has its own energy if its hits something. stick a peice of weight on the end and the energy changes.

Are your disc teeth thin, thick, are they made of Titainium, steel or Aluminium ? I cant beleive it gives polycarbonate as an option :P

[dinowarrior]

How could I Improve pt 2

The teeth would be the full width of the disc (0.75 inches), most probably, and probably be titanium, like the disc itself. But thats all I do know, partly because I have no idea what a suitable size would be, and I simply cant work in the measurements theyre giving.

[majinb]

How could I Improve pt 2

quote:

1.5m in length, 1m in length and 0.5m at its highest point

so Mega Masher is 1.5m in length, and its length is 1m?

[dinowarrior]

How could I Improve pt 2

ITS JUST A RUDDY MIS-SPELLING!!

The last thing I need is ANOTHER face puncher, OK?

[majinb]

How could I Improve pt 2

Damnit Chris, it IS an error in your stats, and this topic is meant to improve peoples stats right? Hence the topics name and all.

And your reply didnt help much, I still dont know which dimension is meant to be the length and which is the wideness.

EDIT: I notice your revised stats now, but they have the same error in them quote:

1.1.m in length, 0.7m in length and 0.5m at its highest point

(Message edited by MajinB on September 14, 200

[dinowarrior]

How could I Improve pt 2

Its obvious the second length should have been width. Its NOT an error, its clearly a mis-print.

Anyway, heres the revised stats, thanks ONLY to Joey and David.

MEGA MASHER 2

Weight: 100 kilos
Body Shape: A Triangle shape, a bit like Inshredable (from Series 6). 1.5m in length, 1m in width and 0.5m at its highest point. There are minature ploughs at the rear where the blade is, to guide robots into it.
Speed: 15mph
TC: 0
GC; 0 at front and back, 6mm at sides
Wheels; 6 inner, aranged in a 3-wheel-a-side formation. This means that four wheels are always on the ground at any one time.
Armour: A nice 3.25mm Hardox
Power: 3x 12v batteries, plus Bosch 750s at 36v.
Colour: Red and yellow.
Weapons; The front is a wedge, and the back has a nasty vertical titanium 45cm-in-diameter two-titanium-toothed disc, powered by its own LEM130 motor and spinning at 2000 rpm. It can probably flip as well as damage.
Srimech: The robot can run inverted, with the sheer angling at the sides making stranding near impossible.
Inspiration; This is probably the only robot I have where I have had no inspiration. It just came as a good name.
Strengths: Power, weaponary
Weaknessess: A little bulky.

[joey_picus]

How could I Improve pt 2

I personally dont take teeth into account when calculating discs - in the end the calculators not going to be 100% accurate and theres a chance of getting an unusually good or bad hit, and therefore it makes sense to take account of the teeth by rounding up rather than any calculation - and at the end of the day, a sufficiently powerful spinning object is the same give or take a few kilojoules, at least once you get over 50 :P

My main reccommendation if you want to make the disc more powerful is to make it thicker, and thus heavier, or make it out of a different material for more weight...considering the drive and armour though, going above 20kgs with the disc weight is pushing it. (let me know if you have problems calculating stuff for the disc and Ill throw something together)

Which brings me back to the armour...3.25mm Hardox all over the machine is still going to cause problems, you can keep the Hardox on the front maybe but youd have to have some Ti on the sides at least and maybe a polycarb base, without doing weight calculations I cant reccommend anything specifically but as it stands its probably overweight.

And I have to agree with Marti about the length/length confusion, it is an error and you shouldnt be yelling at him for pointing it out :P

[majinb]

How could I Improve pt 2

quote:

Its obvious the second length should have been width.It wasnt obvious at all. There are quite some robots whos width is greater than their length.
quote:

Its NOT an error, its clearly a mis-print. A mis-print is just a specific kind of error. Whatever it was, it was a typo that may cause people trouble understanding the bot, it needed improvement, you asked for improvement, so I pointed it out for you to correct it.
quote:

thanks ONLY to Joey and David. Ok, you seem to think my advice was pointless and dont take it, ok, fair game, you wont have to thank me if that really is your opinion.
quote:

1.5m in length, 1m in width and 0.5m at its highest point. WTF? You go through all this trouble yelling at me and then take my advice after all? Clearly it wasnt pointless if you modify your stats for it

I also wanna point out that this latest revision uses the dimensions of the FIRST revision, you scaled the bot down with the second revision and I think those scaled down dimensions were better, I dont know why I bother giving this advice though.