The Crash & Burn Tournament

[kodster]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

All right, enough fooling around! Its time for the final Round 1 fight of this heat. The street fighters today are...

TERROR GEAR 3, with its front spinning drum on top of 2 hinged wedges in front. It also has a double-edged thacker at the rear, and side skirts. However, its not invertible and it aint got a srimech... (from what I can see) Its up against...

MOTHER OF ALL BRICKS INEVITABLY EVOLVED, a simple wedge...or is it? Not really, for it is powered by 2 LEM200D motors producing at the peak 52 horsepower. It also has 6mm hardox 450 all over, and is invertible. Ouch!

Roboteers, stand by...

The house robots are Sir Killalot, and, still recovering from the second battle, Growler.

3...
2...
1...
ACTIVATE!

Its on! MOABIE rams head on with TG3 and smashes him against the wall, neither bot getting under the other. MOABIE reverses, and TG3, drum spinning wildly, advances. Brave, but Aaron puts any other thought to bed as MOABIE drives into TG3 and this time gets under the hinged wedges and slams it into the wall thwacker-first. TG3 lands on top of the wedge...ooh, this isnt going to turn out good. MOABIE spins around on a 180, and drives for the wall opposite. TG3 falls off the wedge slightly, and BAM! TG3 lands drum-first and spins into the air, landing on his back! It looks like its over for TG3! MOABIE, deciding that he wants his match for himself, starts ram fooing TG3s ass around the arena, crashing into the arena walls and not giving a damn about them. Refbot is following MOABIE all around the arena, trying to count out TG3, but no way in hell is MOABIE gonna let Refbot and the HBs take the fun away! Sir Killalot now decides to assert himself, and drives right at MOABIE, thinking that he could lay the hurt on MOABIE real bad. Not with that hardox armour, K! MOABIE is rammed by Killalot but takes no visible damage, and turns to face Killalot. Refbot gets his wish and starts counting TG3 out.
1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10!
Growler clamps TG3 and drags him over to the flame pit, roasting him alive. Meanwhile, Killalot rides up onto MOABIE and stays there. Suddenly, things have turned bad for the HB as MOABIE does not pull a WBC and is actually able to move...towards the pit release! Growler sees this and turns, flying at MOABIE, but only rams Killalot, doing squat. Killalot is shoved into the pit release - GROWLER FALLS DOWN THE PIT?! Oh dear, what a shame, what a pity! Poor old Growler, your sight must be going. Anywayz, since Growler is in the pit, MOABIE doesnt know what to do with Killalot and so dumps him face-first onto Growler. TG3 is still on the flame pit, and Refbot shoves him out of the fire and onto the floor flipper...WHOOSH! TG3 flies onto his wheels again, but is not moving, nor is the drum. Apparently, the flames (and all that huge ramming) did something inside of TG3, and yes, smoke is eminating from him. MOABIE pushes TG3 back onto the flame pit, and this battle is all but done now.

CEASE!

Terror Gear 3? More like Oh Dear Me! Ive been char-broiled so much my colour changed to red!
MOTHER OF ALL BRICKS IE ADVANCES TO ROUND 2!

Round 2

Mother of all Bricks IE VS. Enter the May Tracks
Terrorhurtz VS. Wedge Devolution

[pcbore]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

Good fight there

Right... MOABIEs magnets are worthless with the wooden floor of the RW 5 arena, giving me the traction advantage. As for the massive HP difference in his favour, that wont help if I can get under him. Ill get him from the side and try to toss him OOTA.

[steven_mcg]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

HEAT B
ROUND 2
1) Enter the May Tracks VS Mother of All Bricks I.E.
The former PTT finalist to delete the May Tracks via pitting

2) Terrorhurtz VS WEDGE DEVOLUTION
Simple plan, really - keep to the sides to avoid that horrible hammer, flip Terrorhurtz onto its back, then attempt an OOTA before it can reright.

Youve done a real good job while I was away, Kody. Keep up the good work. :wink:

[kodster]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

Okay, I wrote the above fight assuming MOABIE was just a wedge with HUGE power. Now I just realized that MOABIE is not a simple wedge, but its wedge does something different. Something...electric, what it does I have no idea. Forgive me if the fight was not to your liking, Aaron (or Tony). Please fill me in on the details.

By the way, Frank told me to ask about it, so blame him.

[knightrous]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

The front wedge on MOABIE is an actuated wedge. Its based similar to Sewer Snake. It works both ways up and can lift another robot easily...

Ive got a render in my cad collection similar to it...
http://aaron.botclips.net/images/lifterside.jpghttp://aaron.botclips.net/images/lifterside.jpg
http://aaron.botclips.net/images/lifterper.jpghttp://aaron.botclips.net/images/lifterper.jpg

The bonus advantage about the electric wedge besides the ability to flip or stack an opponent against the arena wall, I can apply more of the bots weight onto the leading edge of the wedge which makes it soo much easier to get under hinged skirts and other low wedges because I have more pressure on my wedge keeping it pressed into the floor, while other wedges and skirts will bounce up on impact, allowing me under

For May Track, hes gonna run out of flips because Franks recycler idea just wont work if the robot is running CO2... He would need a huge assed compressor to extract the gas from the rams, and then compress it back to bottle pressure (750psi). If hes running compressed air, once again, hes going to need a huge compressor to keep up with the flipping....

Care to explain more about your recycler Frank? Id like to hear more about it :wink:

Anyway, because May Tracks is only running a pair of S28-400 magmotors on nominal voltage (24v) He is going to be sluggish to turn and accelerate compared to MOABIEs overkill drive, because the amount of tractional forces to break while turning with those rubber tracks are going to really work the motors... May Tracks may have more traction, but its also a hinderance to his manuverablity, despite being 5MPH slower, I reckon I can nip around his sides faster then he can turn, due to my faster acceleration and skid steering vs his sluggish acceleration (lot of momentum in tracks to get into motion compared to a wheel) and tank steering...

If Ive gone a bit techie, let me know and Ill try to draw up some diagrams and explain it a bit easier for anyone...

[pcbore]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

The recycler should work, because to be perfectly blunt I stole the idea from Gravity. I dont know how it would be implemented, but if youre going to call me out on that angle Id like to see you customise a gas turbine some time Aaron.

[knightrous]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

http://www.gas-turbines.com/http://www.gas-turbines.com/

A website with shat loads of information on how to make a custom gas turbine :-) My design just ran on Petrol using car fuel injectors to atomise the fuel into the combustion chamber. I can go further if you want, but Ill give you two points for that shot Frank :wink:

Got a link to the Gravity recycler? As far as Ive always heard that Gravity ran dual 2kg CO2 tanks and was limited to around 20 flips...

Next?

[knightrous]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

Also forgot to throw in this link: http://www.turbokart.com/home.htmhttp://www.turbokart.com/home.htm

100HP Gas turbine powering a go cart. Check out the kart VS farrari video My initial rating of the Gas tubine may have been a bit high for the size, but you learn a few things after initial designs

[pcbore]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

I heard it somewhere, either on this forum, the old forum, or on series 7, I cant remember which. If it bugs you that much, then forget it, just say it has around 30 flips, seeing its not hugely powerful like Gravity or WBC...

[mark_m]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

To be fair, I think the drive, chassis and armour of May tracks only comes to about 65kg, which leaves 35kg for the whole pnuematic system, including any compressors etc. 35kg seems plenty to me.
However, its never going to have unlimited flips, as the energy has to come from somewhere. How did you think the recycler system worked Frank?
I dont think any of Aarons robots would get under the weight limit (apart from Sewer Snake and warrior SKF), unless they were very weakly built.
Using: http://www.hyperdynamic.co.uk/Mark%2...alculator2.htm

[swiss_tony]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

MOABIE is a shuffler though, so its fine..and I think Acid Burn is only for 200kg walker tournies, as well.
Im sure Aaron can prove his weights are right, though. If he cant, Ill be surprised.

[majinb]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

quote:

Motivation: 4 Titanium WHEELS with urethane rubber and NIB magnets inside the rubber for extra traction on metal floors.

MOABIE certainly isnt a shuffler

then again, things like holes, and assuming the machines are a tad smaller than stated will put them at around 100 kg, also, every single one of us probably realised itd be VERY hard to make a robot out of pure imagination and make it exactly 100 kg, its a vapourbot-thing and I can live with it

[mark_m]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

Fair enough. When I ran the numbers I was surprised how close they came to 100kg, given the motors and batteries used.

I think it would be more realistic to err on the side of caution though. The robot calculator predicts most real robots would be underweight, so there must be something Im missing out, which means Aarons robots would in reality be even more overweight.

I need to put more robot designs through the calculator to try to see where the errors are coming from.

[pcbore]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

As far as weight is concerned, the way I look at it, most vapours are either overweight, or as what seems to have happened with May Tracks, very underweight (compressor aside) to overcompensate. The reason is, we cant build them to see if they really are 100 KGs, or weight the parts out before hand using anything more than what information we can gather on the partys, which are the only realistic ways to truly tell how much a robot can weigh.

The reason this doesnt bother me that much, is if all vapours are overweight, then it doesnt really give them an advantage. The only time it does bother me is if it does give a massive advantage, like having 4 Etek motors, 1 CM hardox armour and a hydrulic crusher.

Mark, my basic idea for the recycler would be to try and pipe the escaping gas into a compressing system, and then feed it back into the bottles... Its really an overkill idea though, seeing how many flipper battles tend to end when one runs out of gas.

[andrewj]

The Crash & Burn Tournament

Aaron calculates the weights for his vapourbots by researching all the parts he uses, something a lot of us dont do. The armouring is calculated by using a formula to times a render of the robot against the armours weight. This is usually an effective method that many people have used to calculate robots weights and I doubt it is incorrect. Id say either the assumptions are wrong or the calculator is wrong, because I doubt the explained method is incorrect. All peak powers are used in vapourbots, otherwise how do we know what the system runs like without building it? I will assume Aaron will justify the weights of his vapourbots, so Ill leave that to him. If real robots weights are incorrect I think we can only presume the calc is wrong, not everyone else. Good work on the calculator though, and no offence meant. I just beleive its likely to turn out wrong.
As for the recycling system, Ive never heard of anything like it. Im also 99% sure Gravity never used anything like it at all.
All vapourbots are unrealistic, Im sure if SOR was put through the calc it would end up in the 500kgs. I think we need a decition about whether to carry on designing them the way we do, or working with the calculator and improving it as we go along... what do you say?