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**corsair_lightning** · 27 March 2008, 19:53

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Now the E-Teks have been replaced by 4 TWM3R Magmotors from Team Whyachi.

**corsair_lightning** · 27 March 2008, 19:54

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Dimensions are now 72cm x 40cm x 13cm.

**alex_holt** · 27 March 2008, 19:57

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By that logic, why do we give walkers any weight advantage at all? Walkers are the precedent here, there is no precedent at all for paint colours and frankly thats a bit of a moronic arguement - colour has no effect on the functionality of the robot. Tracks also often end up defining the entire shape of the robot as well to a much greater extent than wheels.

As for your example, all my Darkestar robots have always been forced to put loads of exra weight in the tracks just to prevent the kind of cheap KOs that vapourbotterring produces, there is nothing about the weapon setup that couldnt be put into something with wheels.

Mark: way too much weaponry in there, define your tracks a little more (how wide? do they have any grip? etc) those dimensions are far too small, try doubling it at least. Also is your flywheel vertical, horizontal or what?

**corsair_lightning** · 27 March 2008, 20:04

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horizontal flywheel.
tracks are 5cm wide and 10cm tall, plus they have a lot of grip and are 65cm long.

**joey_picus** · 27 March 2008, 20:08

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I actually sort of agree with the argument against the weight bonus; the extra weight you need in the tracks is offset by the amount of traction you get - although Im surprised nobodys brought up the issue of battery capacity as fully rubber tracks require absolutely loads of current for you to be able to turn on the spot.

I think really what should happen is that people should be able to continue enforcing their own limits, depending on how they see it. Im working on a redesign of Fire And Ice at the moment that has interchangable weapons which take its weight under the 100kgs wheeled limit. Probably not relevant, but I thought Id mention it anyway

**corsair_lightning** · 27 March 2008, 20:23

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actually, the extra 10 kgs are caused by canisters of compressed cold air that release the cold air to cool down hot components.

**knightrous** · 27 March 2008, 22:56

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The paint weight bonus was to mock your idea of giving extra weight away just to get uncommon designs built more often.

I would say lets not give walkers a bonus either, because this is robot combat, not uni design class. The rules of walkers have already been abused over the years, and it has been tightened up by what defines a walker. If you are to build a walker by RFL guidelines, you need 3 DOF of legs before you can even think of a weight bonus. This heavily stops people building shuffle bots or even semi-shuffles like Anarchy.

At the end of the day, its up to the event organiser (or writer in this case) but with all these random comps giving random extra weights, you end up with all these bots that cannot enter in standard comps.

Funnily, this is why the Aussie bot builders went to the US weight classes, because we wanted to travel to the US to compete (UK had no international events), and building a bot specifically for the US is a waste of money and its hard to just add 1.6kg to a featherweight effectively without a completely rebuilding them, which means they cannot compete locally when finished.

quote:

Im surprised nobodys brought up the issue of battery capacity as fully rubber tracks require absolutely loads of current for you to be able to turn on the spot.

I would have said that if people actual put batteries in their stats

**corsair_lightning** · 28 March 2008, 01:28

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Those containers work like this:

1: The cold compressed air heads to the flipper valve.

2: The pressure is used to activate the flipper.

3: The unpressurized air is sent inside of the robot to cool down hot components.

**corsair_lightning** · 28 March 2008, 01:32

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The weight Cyrilium 2s Titanium flipper can lift can be up to 200kgs.

The Flywheel happens to run at 3000rpm.

**kodster** · 28 March 2008, 01:35

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Like Alex said, theres way too much weaponry in there.

Please post the new stats here again so I can make a correct breakdown. I dont want to give false advice, and its annoying to find posts all over the thread saying that you changed this and changed that.

I repeat, please post the new stats.

**corsair_lightning** · 28 March 2008, 01:58

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+2>Cyrilium 2

Shape: All Torque (Series 2)
Colour: Gold with a silver stripe down the middle.
Weight: 110kg
Dimensions: 72cm x 40cm x 13cm
Speed: 20mph
Turning Circle: 0mm
Ground Clearance: 0mm at the front, and 5mm everywhere else.
Movement: 65cm x 5cm x 10cm titanium tank tracks.
Power: 4 TWM3R Magmotors powered by an R34 car battery
Weapons: 750psi titanium rear hinged flipper mounted on the front with 30 flips, plus a 150kj 30kg titanium horizontal flywheel on the back.
Srimech: Flipper
Notes: New robot:
Strengths: Resilient, very good
Weaknesses: Unknown

**kodster** · 28 March 2008, 02:36

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All right, the breakdown...

Shape: All Torque (Series 2)

Because some people may not know about All Torque (me, for example, as I forget what that bot looks like). You can describe it better, or post a link to a picture or video of All Torque to get your message across.

Colour: Gold with a silver stripe down the middle.

Okay.

Weight: 110kg

SOME people disagree with it but for now its okay.

Dimensions: 72cm x 40cm x 13cm

Seriously, you need larger dimensions. Try expanding your length and width more, and your height just a bit more.

Speed: 20mph

Maybe a bit too fast. Try lowering it a tad.

Turning Circle: 0mm

May not be needed but good to know.

Ground Clearance: 0mm at the front, and 5mm everywhere else.

Good.

Movement: 65cm x 5cm x 10cm titanium tank tracks.

Now this would be a problem if your bot was supposed to be invertible, but its not, so youre cool.

Power: 4 TWM3R Magmotors powered by an R34 car battery

Again, provide information about these because many people dont know about them.

Weapons: 750psi titanium rear hinged flipper mounted on the front with 30 flips, plus a 150kj 30kg titanium horizontal flywheel on the back.

OVERWEIGHT! Youre never going to get a flipper of that calibre AND a 30kg disc that dishes out 150kJ on the same bot unless its a superheavyweight, which is 150kg.

Lose one of them or drop power for the disc.

Srimech: Flipper

You may run into problems with this if you keep both weapons because you may just self-right onto your own disc and get put on your back again. Try a front-hinged flipper if you want to right your bot successfully.

Notes: New robot

Understandable.

Strengths: Resilient, very good

Revise your bot, then talk to me about that, because I dare to contradict here.

Weaknesses: Unknown

Weaknesses arent really needed. Andrew Jackson can fill you in on that story.

Also...WHERES THE ARMOUR?! :S

----

Follow the advice given and you will turn out okay.

(Message edited by kodster on March 28, 200

**alex_holt** · 28 March 2008, 02:37

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My irritation at the paint comment was mainly aimed at Andy for reusing something that wasnt funny or especially relevant in the first place :P I would raise some poitns but my brain is abotu dead at this time of day...

Mark: At a quick break down of your weapons still a 30kg flywheel is only ever viable as the only weapon by my reckoning - thats 30kg + probably up to 12 (?) further kilos for motors, gears mounts and so on, then you add in canisters rams and whatnot for the flipper and you are looking at approaching 60kg worth of weapons. Then you have 4 motors and tracks adding upwards of 30kg at an entirely uninformed guess: thats 90kg of robot and you havent even got a chassis or armour yet.

**leorcc** · 28 March 2008, 09:50

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For the record, I have been against the weight bonus for walkers since the early Robotwars days. I saw the motivation behind it, but I didnt agree with them. And I still dont.

**majinb** · 28 March 2008, 10:35

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quote from Alex

quote:

By that logic, why do we give walkers any weight advantage at all? Walkers are the precedent here.

This pretty much sums it up people.

In this discussion, every single point IN FAVOUR of a weight bonus for tracks can also be made for walkers (taking into account that tracks are less heavy than walking mechanisms).

Alike, every single point AGAINST a weight bonus tracks can also be made AGAINST a weight bonus for walkers.

Heck, weve come to the point where the first person against a weight bonus for walkers shows up

Id say we either keep things as they are for the reasons Alex&co give OR we say both walkers AND tracks must be within the 100 kg limit. I dont like the thought that walkers deserve a whole 50 kg extra while tracks and/or shufflers get nothing at all.

Im starting to kinda agree with Leo actually. The thought behind robotic combat is to build the best machine within a weight limit. Dont come crying when you discover something doesnt fit in this limit

Proof me wrong please

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