Something to think about.

[ewe2]

Something to think about.

whispers and ducks out of the way quietly 2 for me too.

Ian

[mightymouse]

Something to think about.

I held a social on Saturday 5th Feb and made a point of raising this subject to gauge opinions and was surprised that the overall view was for number 2.

Being a newcomer to feathers (it isnt finished yet) I was going to vote for the weight increase, but I must vote with the views of the people I represent.

Trev (East Mids Rep)

[robjones]

Something to think about.

Personally Im definately OK with 2 having spent hours drilling lightening holes in microCHIP recently, every gram being fought for. And I can afford decent material/components. However my pupils in school who wanted to get involved in the sport say the prefer a bigger limit is better. They could only afford about £100 so...
steel (not Ti),
£3 wiper motors from the scrappy (not astrofights or even £25 gold motors),
recycled steel chair legs for the frame (not ali),
and my offcuts of 6mm poly
... is the order of the day. Its hard to make a competitive feather with that stuff so theyve given up. Its slowly getting a hard sport to get into now, following the path of the heavies.

[mute]

Something to think about.

I almost resisted the urge to post but failed horribly.... so....

Tim, firstly let me state that I am NOT on the board of the FRA so anything I say is MY OPINION just in case someone takes anything I say or have said and quotes me again (I.E. You).

If your questions are so pressing (which they obviously seem to be, unless of course you are trying to stir up trouble) why dont you address your concerns to someone who is able to answer you with some authority. Maybe you could take a look at http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/contact.htmhttp://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/contact.htm for some guidance?

Re: Forums
You said Maybe not the best thing to say to someone who is no great fan of online forums a and finds email lists and newsgroups a far more user friendly means of debate . Is this meant to be sarcasm because I dont understand? If you hate forums so much and are such a great fan of e-mail why dont you e-mail (again found at http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/contact.htmhttp://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/contact.htm) the FRA President or Chairman with your opinions/views?

[maddox]

Something to think about.

And with those reflexions, what about the 13.6 kg.If you give me an additional 1.6 kg, I can try to fit a full ali 100*100 FP ram in a feather(about 6 kg for a ram, valve and 2 12 oz bottles). It will only have 5 or 6 actions, but with that amount of power feathers will need parachutes.
Of going all out, and copy Koss idea with an hydraulic weapon.

On the other side, currently working on very cheap drives, a little slow, but absolutely not heavy. A steel chassis is still competitive, its like always, what you want to achive. Ali checkerplate is still not the worst material, and the cheap HDPE is tough enough to play with the big ones.

Dont moan people cant build a good feather in 12 kg. That 1.6 kg extra will only make the creative people build more insane machines. So the difference will stay thesame.

[babeth]

Something to think about.

OK guys n gals: look at the picture in my profile. Thats Kashei Bessmertnye at only 7 kgs pushing the wheelchair and the lad forward at walking speed (the walking speed of a heatlhy adult).
And thats without any weight reduction yet !!!!! And with only 2 wheels (the end was scraping over the floor).

Project 2:Hexem was an 80 kgs robot in the 100 kgs era. Only because Mario and I were being maniacal about weight reduction (and I love to drill...).

I can sympathise with younglings who cannot find/fund sufficient parts to build a competitive feather but I doubt that giving an extra 1,5 kgs is going to make the difference, either financial or material.
What they and other aspiring roboteers need is good communication ! That is: finding the guy who has the interesting parts, getting to know the guy with the lathe, see what is available by asking others where to find stuff, communication, communication, communication. Thats what this forum is for !!!

Sorry for the rant but Ive heard the same excuses many times before and I respond as I always do... go ask the right questions.

[robjones]

Something to think about.

When I said theyd given up what I mean was to build to a 12 Kg limit. We have four feathers that are well over the 12Kg. If they spent £40 on NiMH instead of using second hand lead acid batts from burglar alarms they certainly could get closer to 12Kg. Here the youngsters still have fun with feathers but we use the 6Kg class and the about 12Kg class. Remember these are 13 year olds so its as not easy for them. And 1.5kg DOES make a critical difference, its over 10% of the robots weight

[team_ireland]

Something to think about.

I personally am not infavour of any of the options. I am far closer to number 2 than anyother but i believe the option to change the weight limit should be left available if ever in the future it is felt necessary. Or is that included in number 2 already?
Regards
Ian

[grant_ploughbot]

Something to think about.

Rob, you say that they have 6kg class and almost 12kg class. so... if you can get the robots into 6kg, why cant you get tem just under 12? Steel frames are still very good, i have just finished making mine for PloughBot and i had titanium available for it. I think if there is to be a new weight class at all, it should be measured on prices and power allowed to be used in the robot etc.
i.e Only 12v allowed
300w total motor power in the robot( depending on use of phnumatics)
Limited materials
No brushles motors etc
This would make things easy for newcomers to get into, and this will really shoqw creativity and skills of the roboteers.

Grant

[maddox]

Something to think about.

The Rex Robot Challenge is based on that idea. Limited power for motors and weapons.

But the thing we can do, to make an entry class- and thats not needed according to me, if one want to play, be creative- just take 1 cheap battery. 12V 2 Ah or simular SLA and other energysources in the machine.
This can be with some creativity a very powerfull machine in even the Full expensive feathers.

[big_nipper]

Something to think about.

Im Glad to see people putting thier views on here, even though I woundnt mind the 12.5kg change Im just as happy to stay with 12 and most people who posted on here want it to stay the same, which is not the impression I had with talking to a few people but at the end of the day the majority rule (should!).

Limiting power and other things wont change things too much, at the end of they day Little Flipper should have made that point by winning the last event. It runs of 12V drill motors and gearboxes, ok the gearboxes plastic case was changed to Ally. It was very slow. The ram was found in the scrap as where all the fittings.

All we actually bought for this was the Valve from Technobots and the speed controllers. The speed controllers were 20 pounds from the local model shop off standard RC cars. We used 1mm Ti Armour simply becasue we had some bits. The base plate was nylon and we had some ally supports like G3s for strengh. Oh no forgetting the CO2 bottle from Jonno. We already had the Rx & Tx so its about as cheap as you can make.

We also brought Little Hitter to that event with an IBC for control, a valve costing over 200 pounds, a regulator bought in the states for about 70 pounds, 2 30V drills from B&Q for 50 pounds each for the motors and gears. All new fittings from Farnell, we even bought the polypro armour (no Ti left:sad. PCM Tx & Rx, Rack/pinion gears from HPC, all in all a quite expensive featherweight and it drove to the other side of the Arena and blew up before its first fight even started.

I know we have a small machine shop in the garage but its quite possible to build competitive robots without the expense.

(Oh, in case I fogot to mention I think the members of the FRA have done a very good job and I know how hard you all worked in getting the organisation up and running and in time I hope other people realise all the work involved. If people want to critisise how things are run then I suggest you offer your ideas and help implementing them, if its sensible Im sure the FRA will listen when you turn up to one of thier meetings. Im sure if you offer to minute the meeting it wont be refused)

[psychostorm]

Something to think about.

I agree with Rob on this one. It is very hard to build a Featherweight from scratch (and when I say scratch, all you pedantic farts, I mean NO background in Roboteering or RC and very few engineering skills.) for under £100. Robot combat is a very steep learning curve unto itself. Even the likes of Teams Storm and Kat, to name just 2 of the many FRA/RW veterans, still haven€™t reached the pinnacle (Though you would thought they€™re all reasonably close). I took to doing a very rough pricing for a WSW ram-bot (With out borrowing, sponsorship or stealing.). Here are my results:

£60- 3 Channel 40 MHz Fm Radio
£40 - Speedos*2
£6 - WSW motors*2
£10 - 12v Battery
£10 - Steel (legs and sheet)
£15 - Polycarbonate

£141 - Total

Almost £150. Never mind the tools. What about the people who don€™t have access to half decent tools? The only tools in the house toolbox downstairs at my house are

Half a dozen spanners
Half a dozen assorted screwdrivers
Couple of fuses
A pair of pliers
And a measuring tape.

Not exactly robot building tools, and unlike Rob€™s students some people may not be able to guarantee access basic workshop tools. This would mean buying them. More money spent again.

So don€™t just go round saying €œIt€™s easy to build a competitive featherweight without expense€. Sit there and think how well off you are first. True, you probably earned it, but that don€™t change the last sentence.

However I am quite thankful for this forum, as it provides everyone with an equal access to technical information and help, FRA member or not.

[blazerbotics]

Something to think about.

For the sake of argument, if the weight was to change to 13.6kg how would that help you, what would you differantly to how you are currently doing it? I cant see how 1.6kg is going to help.

[ewan]

Something to think about.

The fact is that you need to commit yourself fully if you are going to build a robot at a young age *stares at zeros in his bankbook* nothing is really going to help you. If someone really wants to build a robot at about 13, you need to be fully commited to it both in the short and long term, and dont think its going to be easy on the checkbook.

[babeth]

Something to think about.

That is why this forum (and others) is so important. You can ask if there are people in your neighbourhood who have better tools or who can make parts for you. Sometimes a daytrip is needed to visit a roboteers workshop. Along the way you will be acquiring some tools...

Examples:
- A young Dutch roboteer borrowed Marios pillar drill for more than a year and it is now being used in another Dutch roboteers workshop.
- We sometimes visit a young one with our tools and spend a nice afternoon tinkering together.
- Mario makes parts, you all know that, but with the younger ones he tries to find a solution that will not hurt their piggy bank (except when theyre asking for the moon and more).
- We can offer young roboteers free parts in return for a weekend (or week) of spring cleaning in our house (since my illness incapacitates me).

Tools can be collected by asking for it at birthdays and such. Buy 1 piece at a time (thats how I did it, especially before I met Mario).

Dont think that it is financially easy for adult roboteers dear youngsters. Just when we think we have the cash to acquire a certain part all kinds of bills start deluging our little home - more often than not its taxes or other governmental theft.
(You know the saying: Dont steal, the government hates competition.)

Why do you think we started building our featherweight Kashei Bessmertnye more than a year ago and have started driving with a test set-up only last weekend ? Now we need a weapon and armour and we can start building it for real. Probably next summer or so.