Something to think about.

[thorak_nemesis]

Something to think about.

my personal opinion is, I think that increasing the weight limit would be a good thing, if as people suggest that other countries are using 13.6Kg as the feather weight limit it would
surely be a an advantage for the uk to follow the same rule as it sets a world standard which leaves people the option of compeating in other countries with out having to modify their robots.

not saying that it is going to open the flood gates and find thousands of people commuting round the world, but it would be good for the sport to have a world standard. also i think it would make it a bit easier for other styles of robots, for instance we are currently working on a range of football robots, which weigh in at a little over 6Kg, the thought proveils that two could compeate as a clusterbot.

[jenny]

Something to think about.

My thoughts are that 13.6kg may well be the way to go. It would mean that we would have a worldwide standard, it would not matter where a robot came from it would be able to compete anywhere.

It may upset some people about the possible weight change, but in the long run, it may encourage more young people to get involved. My nine year old is intrested and we may well start building one for her, but it will be built by her using far simpler materials than I myself used. With this said I found it very hard to get within the 12kg limit, I am no engineer and have had to have a lot of help. I would have found completion easier if the limit had been that little bit higher.

I look forward to a robotering would where we are all on a level playing field where weight is an issue. Yes, some countries do have slight variations in how the weight of the robot is measured(U.S. weighing you fully tooled up with gas included)but you never know if we all use the same weights, then maybe eventually the rules about how the robots are weighed may also fall in line.

Jenny
Team Pillow Torque

[m2xt]

Something to think about.

I may be repeating myself here but what evidence is there to show that significant numbers of american feather builders are going to be competing in the UK. If the FRA were to adopt 13.6kg, what impact would this have on the domestic scene remembering that featherweight rules currently affect more than just FRA members. Potentially this could split the UK scene.

Any weight limit is difficult, you build to 12kg and it ends up weighing 13kg, you build to 13.6kg and it ends up weighing 15kg. The skill and challenge is in building a machine to the rules whatever the rules may be. Maybe (a big maybe) RW on TV would still be going if the heavyweight 80kg limit had stayed in rather than using much of the extra 20kg on armour.

Paul

[Guest]

Something to think about.

If the other countries weigh their robots with gas and we increase our weight limit but dont follow the weighing situation then well be unable to compete internationally anyway. Possibly thats already been pointed out.

[typhoon_driver]

Something to think about.

To be honest I dont see the problem with the current rules.

I am building my own feather as we speak. Even though im using SLAs, wiper motors and hardox armour i recon i will still have a simple pusher weighing in at around 8 or 9kg. This gives 3kg for a weapon which is plenty.

Keep the rules the way they are, no need to change them. Let the americans play with their large feathers over the pond, and if anyone wants to build one to take them on, make full use of the extra 1.6kg. But I think that we should keep to our 12kg over here, its a nice number and whilst it would mean i could put on more hardox armour, my design doesnt need it.

[geoff]

Something to think about.

At the risk of being accused of multiple posting I think it only fair to add this here.

Any possable changes to the weight limit are due to be discussed at the next FRA committee meeting, due to take place on 12/02/05.
We will let you all know the outcome shortly afterwards.
If you want your views on this subject to be taken into account, please contact your regional rep before the meeting. (contact details are on the FRA web-site)
Part your regional reps job is to pass YOUR views on to the committee, so please use them and make sure that YOU have YOUR say as to how our sport should develop.

Geoff Smith
Chairman,
Fighting Robot Association.

[robotwars]

Something to think about.

just a simple statement.

A feather weight, isnt a feather weight in my eyes unless it weighs 12KG, and you would be hard pushed to convince me otherwise.

People, including myself, worked very hard to get our robots to the weight limit. It can be done, and that is the challenge.

I sit back and think how many people come to my events from outside of the uk, we have the dutch belgiums, ( all run at 12kg )
And the only other was the chinese.... they run at 12kg aswell.

If anyone else wanted to, then they would have to run to our rules.

Jonno
Roaming Robots

[storm]

Something to think about.

Reasons for changing to 13.6Kg

Means we can compete internationally.

UK teams adding 1.6Kg to go abroad is fairly easy. None of the US teams coming to the UK for the WCs saw running to 12Kg as a problem. Thus the idea that this is in some way stopping international competition is flawed and has no supporting evidence. Therefore a pointless argument to follow, it is a perceived problem. Total number of US bots that have ever intended to come to the UK to compete - 8. Total number of US bots that have complained or seen 12Kg as a problem - 0.

Increasing the weight will make building the robots easier

Did increasing the weight for heavies from 80Kg to 100Kg make it easier to get them in weight ? People will always build to the limit, increasing that limit does nothing to make them easier to build as the bar is simply raised that bit higher by all taking part.

Enables the younger builder to build something that can stand up to the feather spinners

No, give me another 1.6Kg and Ill just build a more powerful spinner. I could almost double Vortexs hit with another 1.6Kg more than negating the extra 1.6Kg of armour you would have to thinly spread over your bot.

All other weights are in line internationally

Nope, for example the US Heavyweight limit of 220lbs includes all your consumables (gas etc), where as in the UK you get these as an allowance. If we are going to use international standardisation as an argument we should also change the UK gas rules to suit, otherwise were running double standards.

There is already a large installed base of Featherweight robots built to run to 12kg. Please excuse me if Im speaking out of turn, but I honestly believe that the desire to increase to 13.6Kg is being proposed because people have found it difficult to build what they want to build in 12Kg. The suggestion of moving up to 13.6Kg is being seen as a way to deal with this - and is attempting to be justifyed through a number of reasons which I believe are flawed - are we really pretending that the barrier to taking our bots to the US or vice-versa is the weight limit ? I think its several thousands miles of water ! If any change wants to be considered, perhaps moving to 12.5Kg should be looked at. This would slightly reduce the percieved problem between the US and UK classes, and would also bring the weight class in line with the 100Kg/50Kg/25Kg/12.5Kg pattern.

Just my 2 cents.

Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com

[stu]

Something to think about.

I must agree with the last few poitns ed mention, one being several thousands miles of water away so why change. But also i never understud why Feather Weights were 12kg to start off with as it didnt run in line of the 100Kg/50Kg/25Kg.

But i feel if you do increase the weight limit, people are going to find another motor, batteries etc and find it harder to fit in the new weight limit just as people find it hard to fit in 12kg now. When does the line stop moving.
Got nasty spinners like Scocpion, Vortex, Black ne Blue, and good armoured boxes like Pillow Torque and KR2, you got great flippers like Cutlet, Little FLipper, RIp, G3 - they have all worked hard to build it under 12kg. Under stand to change it so its the same with overseas so we can all compete with each other, but hmmm there is a big long trip to USA and Aus etc to make it worth taking a feather here/there to fight with.

Dont know why USA and Aus changed it to 13.6kg anyway, stupid to be honest and why did they have the right to change it, it was 12kg from the start so why change it.

Mr Stu

[andrewj]

Something to think about.

I agree with the above. If there was an increase it should just be 0.5kg to stay with the 100kg/50kg/25kg pattern.

I know the FRA want to stick with the weight categories they currently have, but maybe there could be an extra heavy featherweight category for robots wanting to build to 13.6kg? Just a suggestion.

[big_nipper]

Something to think about.

Must Agree with Ed on this also. It was also mentioned at the last Yorkshire meet and 12.5kG makes more sense if its going to be changed and I for one would support this. Mind you it was also suggested that the gas be included in the weight as some Heavys are using 4.4kG and its only a matter of time before even more is used, I think this needs some concideration also.

[babeth]

Something to think about.

The gas weight advantage only lasts as long as the flipping/bashing power.

I dont know where the Americans got their 13,5 kg rule ? It does not make sense to me, it is 29.76237 Pounds so the non-metric argument wont work with me.
12,5 kg does make much more sense because it is half of the lightweights 25 kg. But in the end I dont think we must change our weight limits: 1. they are fine as they are now and 2. why should we adjust to the Americans and Australians ? It is not as if many of them will come abroad on a regular basis and I dont see why we should change our limits by using theirs as standard. To quote an aide of the current US President: we create our own reality #(see quote below), this is the kind of hubris were getting used to but should it govern us ? I agree that international cooperation is needed but why deferr to them when we already have a perfect system in place ?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

# Here is the full quote:
In a disturbing article in a New York Times Magazine, the writer Ron Suskind told of a meeting hed had with a senior adviser to the president. The White House at the time was unhappy about an article Mr. Suskind had written.
According to Mr. Suskind, The aide said that guys like me were in what we call the reality-based community, which he defined as people who believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality. The aide told Mr. Suskind, Thats not the way the world really works anymore. Were an empire now, and when we act we create our own reality.

[m2xt]

Something to think about.

Perhaps the FRA could advise who has proposed the change and what grounds it is being considered on and surely they have better things to be looking at than this.

Basically stop looking over the pond and start focusing on getting the home ground sorted otherwise there will be even less FRA members to be governed.

Dare I say that at present, there is really only one view that counts on this and thats Roaming Robots. Without them there isnt much else left so if they stick to 12kg (which I hope they do), then 12kg it is.

Paul

[ewan]

Something to think about.

12kg is the way to go, I dont think many of us would mind too much about 12.5kg though, and as Paul says, is there an origin to this discussion?

[maddox]

Something to think about.

Why changing again? If the US and Australian Roboteers want to build a heavy ,and call it an ant, no problemo for me.If I want to play with them over there, then I will use a machine following their rules.

Weightlimits are a big part of the challenge to build a competitive machine. And changing them is not a solution to make the sport better.
So is also my idea about the rules.
Dont go the formula 1 way. So many restricting rules everyone drives thesame car with other sponsorstickers and thesame components with other brandnamrs.