Announcement

**RogueTwoRobots** · 15 March 2011, 20:40

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

surely that machine would breach the 30 pound weight limit as stipulated in the rules

No, because that machine would still weigh 30lbs. Stick it on a set of scales with plastic surfaces (negating any magnetic pull, just for clarity) and it would still show 13.6kg. Okay so it would be harder to pull/lift up from the arena floor but that doesn't mean it weighs more (in terms of mass, rather than actual W=mg weight)

I agree with the comments that using magnets is simply making use of the arena environment (steel floor) in the same way as a ground-skimming wedge makes use of the arena environment (flat floor). If something is compromising the enjoyment or competitiveness of the sport, then by all means alter the arena environment to hinder it*
But I sincerely hope the rules aren't re-written to banish magnets; too often in this spobby rules have been re-written because someone has exploited a loop-hole (perhaps abroad more so than here), usually in ingenious ways. But rather than applaud and admire their ingenuity, the loop-hole is closed because there were murmers of unfair advantage.

*For example, the discussions about having an uneven surface to discourage wedges. However steel floors are still relatively new and presently only feature at Robo Challenge events, so not only has the utilisation of magnets been impossible until recently, but they can only be used at one or two events per year.

**widow_twanky** · 15 March 2011, 21:38

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

i dont break the rules i bend them

I don't think you're breaking the rules or even bending them. It's within the rules and no-one else is prevented from using them. Safety rules in terms of stregnth of magnets?? ...............don't put two magnets together with your finger in between..........anything else? it's a sport where we abuse lipos which can be very nasty if abused and we use 65bar pneumatics etc etc so people should have some idea of any risks with magnets like...........erm........getting it stuck on your robot (Dave Weston springs to mind

)

The only issue with magnets I see is that they're an entanglement device. So in freak situation where you get stuck on top of another robot then you are the entangler and you lose by default.

**typhoon_driver** · 15 March 2011, 21:49

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2PDAnKEu9M

This is what i mean when i talk about dangers. Seen a site a while back where a guy had one sitting on a wooden bench and it jumped a foot sideways crushing his fingers against a metal object at the end of the bench.

**PJ-27** · 15 March 2011, 22:11

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Just to reiterate, this was originally a quirky thread looking at the possibilities of putting helium inside a robot.....

I don't wanna start a fight!

**RogueTwoRobots** · 15 March 2011, 22:20

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Don't worry PJ, no fighting here

Just some decent discussion/debate. It's been a bit quiet on the forums lately so we're all just jumping at the chance to stick our teeth into something substantial.

**widow_twanky** · 15 March 2011, 22:21

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Originally posted by PJ-27

Just to reiterate, this was originally a quirky thread looking at the possibilities of putting helium inside a robot.....

I don't wanna start a fight!

Listen matey, I've just sent Gary Â£22 by paypal (and i genuinely have) I have paid for the full two page argument and that's what we'll be having

Tomorrow I'll probably start trying to tell kenny that mcdonalds chicken sandwich is far superior in quality to kfc chicken of any sort. That'll be a fun one.

**typhoon_driver** · 15 March 2011, 22:24

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

he has

Incidentally KFC is superior

**PJ-27** · 15 March 2011, 22:27

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Now fast food! Be-jesus.

**RogueTwoRobots** · 15 March 2011, 22:33

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

I'm sorry but nothing beats the Chicken Royale with cheese that's served up at Burger King

**psychostorm** · 15 March 2011, 22:44

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Originally posted by typhoon_driver

Magnets as far as I'm concerned aren't a problem. There should possibly be a few rules writing about safety with them but I don't see a problem with their use. You can talk all you want about unfair advantages but then in my opinion having no weapon on your robot gives you an unfair advantage as you can use more of the weight of your machine for armour.

That tactic would come with a major inbuilt disadvantage - they'd have no damage points in the judges decisions. The wedge would have to contend with uneven floor. The magnets have the only problem:

Originally posted by widow_twanky

The only issue with magnets I see is that they're an entanglement device. So in freak situation where you get stuck on top of another robot then you are the entangler and you lose by default.

They stick to the nearest piece with Iron in it.

Originally posted by typhoon_driver

You would never be able to use more than the magnets that 540 will be using as the motors, speedos, batteries etc have to be upgraded to be able to handle the extra strain of the additional weight so no you would never get a superheavyweight type machine in the featherweight class. I say it's just being creative with the environment you are fighting in, i could equally say that a wedge running along the ground gives you an unfair advantage but that's always been accepted.

Technological progression, Gary. I'm not talking near future in my original statement.

Jamie, I was taught weight the force was the attraction of 2 objects (ie: robot & floor), which a magnet would muck up. I did forget that weight only included gravitational forces. So the rule confused me.

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

AKA... me.

Hello, Mouldy. I've been looking forward to your posts.

Can I have a photo of 540's base with a colour paperclip on it? please?

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

rules of safety regarding dropping the robot on your feet etc? .... Come on your not that stupid? If you drop any featherweight on your foot etc its gonna hurt....

Not as much as 38KG of magnet that refuses to turn over.
Besides never a question of stupid, more of clumsy. Some of us just aren't born with adequate motor functions. Think Steven Hawking stacking dishes.

More a question of insurance. If Mike can lose a finger to the weak force of gravity, imagine what a magnet will do. I would recommend steel toe caps but I doubt it would help.

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

And should we ban all magnets? like the ones in your drive motors

Not that I'm interested in a ban but necessity. The motors won't work without the magnets, your robots traction will.

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

Theres nothing in the rules saying magnets carnt be used...

Nothing to say they can either. Rule 1.2, Mouldy & quick to it!

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

and im not the first person to of done it....

In the UK? May I ask for the preceding machine. 360 & beta used magnets I know, beta was US and 360...

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

And yeah- suppose 360 could be classed as a hover bot.... but not intentionaly... so who cares....audience love it.

That's the bit I like about these spinners - My dislike for magnets quite literally comes from stopping the fickle decider of gyroscopic forces.

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

if theres nothing saying you carnt do it...

War of attrition invite.

Originally posted by mr_turbulence

think outside the box and give it ago.. instead of trying to stop other people making things more interesting.

Nowt personal, Mouldy but most of the outside box designs I have had are stopped by the thought of fighting one of your spinners so let's not pick hairs on who is killing originality here.

I don't like it - it's just not cricket, old bean.

Does any one know if the robo challenge floor is held down? other than gravity?

Originally posted by PJ-27

I don't wanna start a fight!

If you don't want to be a fight, you may be in the wrong hobby.

Originally posted by widow_twanky

Listen matey, I've just sent Gary Â£22 by paypal (and i genuinely have) I have paid for the full two page argument and that's what we'll be having

Is this the hour or just the five minutes?

**typhoon_driver** · 15 March 2011, 22:52

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

if you have a problem with magnets then don't attend the events with the metal floor :P

**gchachanidze** · 16 March 2011, 07:15

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Originally posted by PJ-27

I don't wanna start a fight!

Originally posted by psychostorm

If you don't want to be a fight, you may be in the wrong hobby.

I don't think he meant in the arena i think he meant between you guys

**craig_colliass** · 16 March 2011, 08:45

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Come on guys stop rule bashing.... if there's nothing saying you cant do it... think outside the box and give it ago.. instead of trying to stop other people making things more interesting.

I Have to agree with this, as the more diverse the designs the more interesting the sport. Seraph is about 500mm high 1100mm long and 850mm wide for a feather weight robot it is quite big. Because the rules don't have a maximum dimension for feathers. this means there is a different type of design that works in the arena, (Lets get rid of some of the tin snails and make something fun!) last year Seraph won the annihilator competition (just!). So it can be done, Or just copy Seraph I won't mind

**PJ-27** · 16 March 2011, 12:35

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Craig has a point, you could just put magnets in your robot if you don't like others having them.

From what I could tell Newton's Third law (equal and opposite forces) was the only enemy of the spinner, but the magnets change all that!

**typhoon_driver** · 16 March 2011, 12:46

Re: Using Helium to reduce your weight!

From what I could tell Newton's Third law (equal and opposite forces) was the only enemy of the spinner, but the magnets change all that!

Lol magnets can't change the laws of physics

All that changes is that the spinner isn't thrown across the arena. It actually puts more stress into the spinner robot. If it hits a solid object such as the arena sidewall then more of the energy of the impact will be sent back through the chassis rather than sending the robot flying away.

As Scotty in Star Trek said, you can't break the laws of physics captain.......before he started up the warp engine......

I'm planning on using magnets in my next vertical spinner but there's a very good reason for that. Did the calculations and it will experience a 30kg upthrust on one wheel and down thrust on the other if it turns hard on the spot. Basically i need the magnets or it will be completely uncontrollable......more so...... but to this end i will be designing wheels and shafts that have to take a total loading of around 80kg. A pain in the proverbial!

Announcement

Using Helium to reduce your weight!

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment