From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

[Roland]

Hello! I am Roland, I'm new to the forum and thought I should introduce myself before I start rambling.

Here goes.

I'm 14 years old, and I'm a total newbie to building robots.
I'm wanting to have building Robots as my active hobby, I no longer see sitting and playing Xbox all day as a sufficient and productive way to spend my life, I enjoy engineering and electronics from what experience I have. I also want to make my Grandpa proud before he passes away.
I'd like to say that I've looked into building robots for a couple of months now seriously, and have considered it for more than a few year - my grandpa was an offshore BP engineer, and whenever I visit we spend a lot of time in his garage making things (Which has given me a small amount of experience in using clamps, angle grinders, saws, drills and the spinney thing which makes stair banisters of which name surpasses me!) which gave me the idea to start. So I have come to the conclusion that my best bet was to get advice from real professionals rather than spending endless hours on Google. So I'm starting from right at the bottom. What I want to know is, can YOU help me with getting started?

Specifically, I would like to know,
What tools do I need?
Where and for what price can I get tools?
Where and for what price can I get internals?
What internals do I need?
How much space will I need to build featherweights?
Where can I learn the electronics and engineering to build one?
What method of transport other than trailer/boot (Which I would still have access to) would you suggest?
If I were to get into a bit of a bother, would anyone be able to give me advice on what to do?
How exactly do YOU deal with the risks of building robots?

So, those are my questions, I know it's a long list, and I thank anyone in advance for helping out.
Oh, and money isn't a problem, I earn round £60 a month from pocket money and helping my dad and I am looking for a part time job + whatever I earn from items I sell using amazon/ebay, I'm certain my Parents will support me when I have understood enough of it to be trusted to not do anything too awful and I can show myself as willing to act mature about it and to prove I can handle the responsibility.

-Roland (Sorry for the awful grammar)

Edit: I'm not expecting to have a robot in two months time, I understand this possibly and most likely will take a long time possibly more than a year, more than two!

[botmad]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Hello Roland and firstly welcome to the world of roboteering
Your questions are sound ones and we and i speak for all roboteers on this forum and in our community are very pleased to see new blood coming into our spobby ( sport / hobby) = spobby your questions will be answered from all over with different opinions from different roboteers and can take you in all sorts of wierd and wonderfull roads.
I for one will give you mine ,,,,,

1) First and formost design your robot draw it make it out of cardbord and tape ect but get into your mind what you want to make .

2) Tools : basic hand tools screwdrivers ,pliers,wire cutters,hacksaw,spanners,soldering iron, Oh and a HAMMER...

3) Where from ,,, car boots cheap tool shops ect..

4) Internals two cheap cordless drills will give you drive and speed controllers are available from most modelshops and online on this forum :: For sale thread, with the drills you get free batteries too ..

5) And on that note i will stop for now and give others a chance ...

6) Check out Roaming Robots online shop I know johnno sell the rat kits which is a good way to get into our spobby ..

Pete

[razerdave]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Hi Roland, first of all, welcome to the forum and to the sport/hobby

In answer to your questions:

What tools do I need?
It depends on what you're going to use to make the robot. For plastics, a hacksaw or jigsaw for cutting panels out. You can use them on Aluminium as well.
If you don't weld, most likely you'l be bolting parts together, you'll want a good few different screwdrivers to suit (or allen keys if you use those kinds of bolts). Miscelaneoustools you'll want: adjustable spanner, hammer, file, wire cutters/strippers and a soldering iron and solder.

Where and for what price can I get tools?
Prices will vary depending on source. B&Q or Focus or alike is best place to start, though I'd get a soldering iron from Maplins.

What internals do I need?

Basic elements of any robot:
Drive motors x 2
Battery (how many depends on you)
Speed controller
Transmitter and receiver
Power light
Removeable link

How much space will I need to build featherweights?
Usually you can building in a shed, or if you can get a garage, all the better. I've built mine pretty much on a writing desk in my garage

Where can I learn the electronics and engineering to build one?

US we can help with wiring diagrams and any advice on the way we have built things and tailor it to how your skills are.

What method of transport other than trailer/boot (Which I would still have access to) would you suggest?

I used to carry mine on the trains in a suitcase

If I were to get into a bit of a bother, would anyone be able to give me advice on what to do?

Of course, thats what we are here for

How exactly do YOU deal with the risks of building robots?
I'll say this: SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT! Use all nessesary saftey precautions before working on the robot or using tools (IE: goggles, safety boots, etc

Hopefully this will give you an idea, I'll come back and elabora a little on what I've said

[team_orr]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Hello! I am Roland, I'm new to the forum and thought I should introduce myself before I start rambling.

hi Roland, welcome to the forum!

Here goes. I'm 14 years old, and I'm a total newbie to building robots.

thats okay, we all have to start somewhere! im 13 but have quite a few robots :P the people here are really friendly and give great advice!

I'm wanting to have building Robots as my active hobby, I no longer see sitting and playing Xbox all day as a sufficient and productive way to spend my life,

good choice, although the xbox is awsome

I enjoy engineering and electronics from what experience I have. I also want to make my Grandpa proud before he passes away.

having recently lost a large chunk of my family i can understand where your coming from

I'd like to say that I've looked into building robots for a couple of months now seriously, and have considered it for more than a few year

thats good to know, you would be amazed how many people come on here and ask random questions without doing the slightest bit of research

my grandpa was an offshore BP engineer, and whenever I visit we spend a lot of time in his garage making things (Which has given me a small amount of experience in using clamps, angle grinders, saws, drills and the spinney thing which makes stair banisters of which name surpasses me!)

i belive your refering to a lathe?

which gave me the idea to start. So I have come to the conclusion that my best bet was to get advice from real professionals rather than spending endless hours on Google.

good choice, the people here really know their stuff!

So I'm starting from right at the bottom. What I want to know is, can YOU help me with getting started?

sure, everybody here is usualy willing to share their knowledge, helped me a lot

Specifically, I would like to know,

What tools do I need?

obviously a few tools are needed but you seem to have a nicely stocked workshop that should be fine for featherweight robots, i made my first robot with tin snips and and a drillpress , obviously that was my first robot and i have aquired a fair number of odd tools along the way

Where and for what price can I get tools?

the usual suspects, homebase, maplins, b&q etc

Where and for what price can I get internals?

ah well thats personal choice, and it varys robot to robot, but a few useful sites are http://www.technobots.co.uk/ , http://www.robotmarketplace.com/store.html and http://web.me.com/robochallenge/Robo_Ch ... Store.html , most first robots cost £100-£200 but as you gain experiance you collect parts so the cost will go down a bit over the years

What internals do I need?

im sure people will explain this better but the main parts to a featherweight are:

. drive motors (x2)
. speed controller (esc)
. transmitter/reciever
. batterys
.safety devices, failsafe (if not built in) power led, and removable link
.weapon (?)

but you kinda pick it up as you go along

How much space will I need to build featherweights?

a table or a workbench is all that is really needed (although a workshop would be better, they are genrally quite small so storage isnt much of a issue

Where can I learn the electronics and engineering to build one?

like i have said befor, the people on this forum are really helpful and knowledgeable

What method of transport other than trailer/boot (Which I would still have access to) would you suggest?

i put mine in the boot

If I were to get into a bit of a bother, would anyone be able to give me advice on what to do?

yep no worries

How exactly do YOU deal with the risks of building robots?

there are varius safety rules you have to comply too (look on the fra homepage) but really its just common sense, keep a level head and you should be alright

So, those are my questions, I know it's a long list, and I thank anyone in advance for helping out.

Oh, and money isn't a problem, I earn round £60 a month from pocket money and helping my dad and I am looking for a part time job + whatever I earn from items I sell using amazon/ebay, I'm certain my Parents will support me when I have understood enough of it to be trusted to not do anything too awful and I can show myself as willing to act mature about it and to prove I can handle the responsibility.

-Roland (Sorry for the awful grammar)

cool, good luck and welcome to the wonderfull world of robotics

Edit: I'm not expecting to have a robot in two months time, I understand this possibly and most likely will take a long time possibly more than a year, more than two!

it really depend on what pace you work at, iv seen robots built in a few days, but tbh its the ones that have more effort put into them that do well, and remember its likely to get improved and updated over the years

[Roland]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

I'm honestly quite amazed by the response so far! You've all been very helpful, and I thank you!

How much space will I need to build featherweights?
Usually you can building in a shed, or if you can get a garage, all the better. I've built mine pretty much on a writing desk in my garage

I have an unused space in front of my conservatory that is facing a raised wall that I could cover in sheeting, store my tools in our shed and move them out to the space when I go to build, plus I wouldn't need a generator as I'd be right next to the house mains, or might that be too risky considering a wild robot could smash glass.

What tools do I need?

obviously a few tools are needed but you seem to have a nicely stocked workshop that should be fine for featherweight robots, i made my first robot with tin snips and and a drillpress , obviously that was my first robot and i have aquired a fair number of odd tools along the way

Unfortunately My grandparents live in Yorkshire and I'm in East Sussex! I visit them three times a year and it wouldn't be problem taking a half built robots up there for some professional help.
But I think I'm going to have to buy the tools myself, or have my parents help buy what we don't have.

Internals two cheap cordless drills will give you drive and speed controllers are available from most modelshops and online on this forum :: For sale thread, with the drills you get free batteries too ..

Does that mean I'd have to dismantle drills and re-wire them? Do you attach the axel in the same way you'd attach a drill bit?

If you don't weld, most likely you'l be bolting parts together, you'll want a good few different screwdrivers to suit (or allen keys if you use those kinds of bolts). Miscelaneoustools you'll want: adjustable spanner, hammer, file, wire cutters/strippers and a soldering iron and solder.

If I wanted to learn to weld, what would be the best way to learn?
My mother owns a soldering iron and solder for her stain glass, do you mean that sort of soldering iron and the mix lead solder?

Anyhow, thank you all, I'm sorry you're being bombarded with questions, and I'm sure a couple are flaming obvious, but I really want to know as much as I can before I start anything! You really are a helpful community.

-Roland

[Metal Demons]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Does that mean I'd have to dismantle drills and re-wire them? Do you attach the axel in the same way you'd attach a drill bit?
If I wanted to learn to weld, what would be the best way to learn?
My mother owns a soldering iron and solder for her stain glass, do you mean that sort of soldering iron and the mix lead solder?

Anyhow, thank you all, I'm sorry you're being bombarded with questions, and I'm sure a couple are flaming obvious, but I really want to know as much as I can before I start anything! You really are a helpful community.

-Roland

Ok - drills. Yeah. Get yourself a couple of cheap cordless drills, take them apart, and the motor/gearbox units are what you use to move your robot around - the batteries are often kind of cheap and bad, but cheap and you can take the plastic packaging off to make lighter, more compact battery packs. You attach them to the wheels by unscrewing the chuck - there's a reverse threaded screw inside there holding it on - and putting a wheel on in place. The blue wheels you can get from robochallenge or wherever - they're the ones almost everyone uses - fit on nicely in place of the chuck, you tighten the screw up, and job's a good 'un I think robochallenge.co.uk has plain drill motors and mounts for them as well as the wheels - and radio gear and other useful things for building robots with.

As for welding, your best bet is to find someone with a welder - mig is probably the easiest to get the hang of and is fine for most stuff - and get them to teach you the basics, then get hold of a welder of your own and practice

You'll be wanting a smaller electronics soldering iron ideally and a reel of flux core solder, you're joining wires and connectors.

Good luck with everything it's definitely doable to get a basic wedge robot together for the event at the end of September if you're into that idea.

[team_orr]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

I'm honestly quite amazed by the response so far! You've all been very helpful, and I thank you!

no problem, thats what we are here for :-)

I have an unused space in front of my conservatory that is facing a raised wall that I could cover in sheeting, store my tools in our shed and move them out to the space when I go to build, plus I wouldn't need a generator as I'd be right next to the house mains, or might that be too risky considering a wild robot could smash glass.

i used to stay with my gran a lot befor she died, so naturaly i took my robot stuff with me :-P in her house was a small conservatory which had no other use because all her possessions had been moved into her room, so i set up shop there, it was perfect but because the room was made of glass the light (and heat) comes in, so battery packs can get very hot and pop cells if your not carefull! one day i was testing a twakbot (stinger style robot) and it fell of my cradel i was propping it up on, hit the floor, started spinning and hit the window...yeah...not good, so yeah, sorry for the life story it should be fine... just make sure you do all your testing outside :P and keep your electronics out of the sun

If I wanted to learn to weld, what would be the best way to learn?

id buy a cheap welder of ebay, either mig or arc, most people prefer mig but i personaly prefer arc because i made a cheap homemade version + i find them better suited to my needs

[Roland]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Okay, I'm slowly starting to grasp it all, thanks again.

Few more questions before I start to get moving.

I have tip close by which tend to keep a lot of electricals, do you think it'd be worth me getting scrap parts and scrap metal from there, and if yes, what parts am I looking specifically for?

How do you keep within the weight limit?

I've read the FRA build rules, so I know what's what, but with rotating weapons it states you have to contact the event manager. Do Roaming Robots and Robo Challenge have any side rules to rotating weapons?

Thanks again everyone!

[elobire]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Okay, I'm slowly starting to grasp it all, thanks again.

Few more questions before I start to get moving.

I have tip close by which tend to keep a lot of electricals, do you think it'd be worth me getting scrap parts and scrap metal from there, and if yes, what parts am I looking specifically for?

How do you keep within the weight limit?

I've read the FRA build rules, so I know what's what, but with rotating weapons it states you have to contact the event manager. Do Roaming Robots and Robo Challenge have any side rules to rotating weapons?

Thanks again everyone!

hi,
im in the process of building my first robot with my brother so i cant exactly help much. what i can tell you is not to buy all the parts before you completely decide what you need. i started and bought £50 worth of motors only to find that i didnt need them. also if you want a spinner, i have been told not to build one as their are few events that will allow them.
your also right about not having one in two months time,i starting building mine over a year ago, but due to money problems i couldnt afford to pay for parts.
also you should expect to spend around £150-200, so far i think ive spent £150 (only need a few more bits).

as for internals, you need speed controllers (amount depend on how many drive motors), drive motors which you should get from robochallenge along with blue wheels. and a reciever/ transmitter.
you also wont need many tools to build the robot, all you need for wiring is a soldering iron or a crimper. i doubt its worth getting parts from a tip, unless you need sheet metal.
i guess to keep under the weight limit you will just need to weigh each part and work out how much it will roughly end up as.

[Roland]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Thanks for your reply! I realised something while I was at school, how exactly will I cut metal?
So what exactly should I use to cut metal?
And will any drill do to make holes in metal?

Specifically Ali or Steel.

[Bodge Job]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

hi I'm 13 and quite new too and my first robot 'Armourdillo' used steel and ali and drilled them with normal drills but don't use cheap drills or wood/ stone drils as they are not stong enough.

[rallikas]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Thanks for your reply! I realised something while I was at school, how exactly will I cut metal?
So what exactly should I use to cut metal?
And will any drill do to make holes in metal?

Specifically Ali or Steel.

Hi, you can cut metal with hacksaw or angle grinder. You can drill plastics, steel, ali, polycarbonate with the usual metal drillbit.

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

You can also use a jigsaw fitted with a metal cutting blade to cut aluminium, and possibly some thin steels. Handy if you don't have an angle grinder but get fed up with the repetitive sawing motion of a hacksaw.

Off-topic, but looking at your avatar image, do you have any Roland instruments or connection to the Roland brand? Or are you just using it because it's the same as your name?
Just curious as I recognised the logo from my Roland drum kit and was wondering if you played an instrument.

[Roland]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Ahaha, mainly to do with my name, but we do have a Roland speaker and a keyboard scattered around the house.
Not that it's important, but I sing. xD

It looks like I'm all set, my parents have offered to pay partially on tools, I have a majority of them anyway, and I'm hopefully going to get taught how to weld by my Grandpa.
Plus I have space to do it too! (Rather excited!)
Safety first as always though.

Thanks for the help so far. Any more advice is deeply appreciated, when I want to start building and need advice on that, should I keep it in this thread, or post a new thread in build diaries?

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: From The Ground Up (Advice Thread)

Wish I could sing properly

Sounds like you're off to a good start. In terms of space, I tend to build in my bedroom (I have to admit, my parents are very tolerant of this!) and only really go and work in the garden if what I need to do is a bit too much for in the house (sparks from grinding and such) so any space really should do

Definitely set up a build thread when you start building; I for one enjoy seeing and hearing how robots are coming together. You can either ask for advice in that thread or here, wherever you do we'll be happy to answer