Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

[jamieb]

Despite the fact that Most of the semi finalists were flippers, it now seems likely that there will be no flippers in the grand final, real shame about gravity but this means the grand final will be very intresting

[Guest]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

Yer its funny how forums have been full of threads saying how its the year of the flippers
and look how many flippers are through
Amusing

[Guest]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

I must take some of the stick for this, I was one of the main voices of the all flippers grand final think tank. But i still wouldnt rule out Atomic 2.

[fluppet]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

Or Firestorm, actually. I dont *think* theyll get through, but I wouldnt be all that surprised if they did. They might have learnt from Bigger Brother that once a wedge is upside down, dont flip it back, for example. :-)

(Can Storm 2 use its arm as a srimech? Is it fast enough? I gather Biohazard used to be able to, pre-skirt.)

--
Fluppet

[storm]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

Storm II does not self right with its arm :sad:

Ed
http://www.stormrobot.comhttp://www.stormrobot.com

[fluppet]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

Thanks Ed! Not that it matters all that much while youre invertable, but at least you could fix the upside-down wedge problem.

Speaking of which, I notice neither Storm nor Tornado have a wedge the other way up on the back (the traditional way of keeping your wedge when youre flipped). The wedge (sorry, FLAIL) is only sometimes Tornados weapon and I guess they want the rear wheels exposed when the front is raised off the ground anyway (which would compromise the second wedge), but I wonder whether it might not be useful for Storm2(/3).

Are the team so worried about rear attack? (Quick! Get them while theyre... oh, theyve gone.)

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Fluppet

[Guest]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

Ed already sorta fixed the upside down wedge problem; if Storm 2 is upside down, the spikes at the back can be used to get hold of a bot. The only way to get aorund the invertable drive problem (besides oogabooga driveswitches and double wheels), is using the back as a front, which Eds done.

[fluppet]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

(Peers at web site). Dang, couldve sworn Storm2 was a kind of /\ shape (slope both ends). Im imagining things.

Spikes should kind of help, but Id have thought an invertable wedge would be more effective. Mind you, Storms strategy is to self-flip by driving up the opponents wedge quickly, IIRC, so being upside down doesnt last long. Thought I remembered them inverted against Mute and the wedge (the wrong way up) was still the preferred attack device, but maybe they were just trying to get flipped back.

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Fluppet

[storm]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

The rear panel of Storm II is made from 6mm Grade 5 Titanium, with two spikes holding people off that. The weak points at the back are the aerial and link door.

The link door adds another 6mm of Titanium over the rear armour panel and slides open and closed - its designed to take direct impacts if were cruising about in reverse. The aerial is firly attached enough that you can pick the robot up with it.

Storm II may not have a wedge on the back, its its still solid enough to do the business

Ed
http://www.stormrobot.comhttp://www.stormrobot.com

[jamesb]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

the double wedge thing? how would that compromise the rear wheel clearance thing?
if you picture it, you can still have the rear wheels exposed like tornado, but continue the slope to a wedge, it doesnt compromise it.

I think they havent done it as tornado can run upside down, but they prefer it not to. Extending the rear increases the chances of it getting turned over.

[fluppet]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

James:

Ill explain my logic, with the proviso that the disadvantages I can see may still be outweighed by the advantages.

The problem with having an inverted wedge at the back and combining that with the design aim of having the rear wheels on the ground when the front ones are raised is that it requires the wheels to be quite near the angle of the bottom of the inverted wedge.

A wedge needs to be able to deflect spinners and the like safely above the robot (sort of). Having the wheels near enough to the angle of the inverted wedge to allow for the raised front business to work would mean that they would be dangerously exposed at the top of the (right side up) wedge. Weapons would slide up the wedge right into the wheels. Also the wheels would serve to push the opposition back off the wedge again.

The less youre worried about having grip when the front of the robot is raised, the less exposed the wheels need to be and so the less this is a problem, but since the tail shape is a deliberate feature of Tornado its clearly something theyd like to preserve.

Ed: Oh, I didnt doubt its solidity, I was just curious (and mistaken) about the shape. Given how thick the armour is, does the frame actually do anything? :-)

Ive always felt that, although horsepower is very handy for ramming things and sticky wheels are nice, by far the most significant factor in who can push whom around is which robot gets underneath the other (see the final of the second World Championships). Wedges wedges everywhere. One reason I think the way to introduce the biggest shakeup in robot combat would be to introduce a non-planar arena.

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Fluppet

[kaideejee]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

Off road robot combat? Could be fun and would introduce a whole new set of challenges. Could even do it in a soil/mud/grass environment with deep puddles and water hazards etc. Completely new class of robot required for that one.

-- Kev

[fluppet]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

Er. That might be a bit enthusiastic (and I suspect roboteers will get tired of digging sand out of gearboxes quite quickly). I was just thinking of some ramps dotted around the arena - or more specifically, raised areas linked by ramps (think Marble Madness rather than Robot Wars pinball challenge). Nothing so steep that wheeled robots couldnt cope, and maybe not even anywhere which a robot could fall off, but something to stop the race to be lowest to the ground (or at least to make it harder). Spinners would have to be more careful as well.

Kind of scuppers much of the effort on many existing bots, though, and it makes arena construction a bit of a pain - so unless its a rarity as a special extra I dont think itd catch on. If the ramps were removable (which, along with making them able to take a careless spinner hit, makes arena construction even harder) it might be possible to do the occasional special format fight, though.

Some robots wouldnt cope - Storm2 would probably ground itself, and Typhoon2 probably couldnt negotiate a slope either, at least while spun up - but Id have thought Firestorm, Gravity, S3, THz, maybe Razer (with the fifth wheel), Tornado, etc. would handle it quite well. Stinger would excel. :-)

Another of my odd thoughts, anyway - although I think its been discussed before.

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Fluppet

[Guest]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

About this double wedge stuff.
Does anyone remember spawn of scutter from series 4, and the wedge they had?It mobved but didnt use anything mechanical to do so.

[Guest]

Likely No Flippers in Grand Final

Yes, I remember that one! It was a simple hinged wedge, almost like a skirt.