Locking bars and arming up!

[wendyshep]

Will there come a time when it is compulsory for every robot with a flipper to have a locking bar, to prevent someone from having a major accident after arming up? There was a very close shave at the weekend! And before someone says 'a locking bar didn't save Michael's finger' well that was a slightly different scenario!

[teamshock]

Hi Wendy,

The rules at the moment state that there has to be a locking bar fitted when in the pits (this is part of the tech check) but there is nothing to say that it should be fitted at the point of arming up. There are the arguments that each machine is different and some may or may not need one.

I think you are right that there should be locking bars fitted to all machines when arming up as the weekend showed.

[craig_colliass]

I think this is a sensible step, not just for arming up the robot, but if you have to separate robots that are jammed together. Putting "the locking bar" in would secure the weapon when men are very close to the robots in the arena and they are still armed! unjamming them would not be as hazardous.

Oh I just found this rule.

12.11 Weapon Restraints
All weapons must incorporate a secure restraint that locks the weapon in a safe position.
The restraint may incorporate locking pins, straps and bars but must be secured in such a way that it cannot be removed
inadvertently.
The design should ensure that the weapon cannot be fired during the activation process.

[terry]

I have a locking bar through the front of the robot, I remove this before gassing up in the arena I think its dangerous to remove it after gassing up as if the flipper fires it will pull the metal rod in my hand and cause injury. I tried to attach a rope to pull it out but any bent metal stops it from sliding freely and just moves the robot instead, So pointless . I belive eruption is the same locking system as me but I think they remove the bar by hand after arming up.

[typhoon_driver]

I'm sorry but there are machines that have been allowed into the arena, have been armed up and haven't had a restraint on the weapon in place whilst arming up? Who tech checked and allowed those to fight?????

Thinking to the feather champs every machine was activated then finally before the box was locked, the pins were all removed last thing.

I see no reason that this can't be the case and if your machine is not suitably designed then it should not be allowed to compete. This is simple stuff!

[james...venom]

Will there come a time when it is compulsory for every robot with a flipper to have a locking bar

It already is

[pressure]

I have frequently commented at events about the cavelier attitude to arming robots without a weapon restraint, yes there was a near miss last weekend but there have been others.
Earlier in the year a roboteer nearly lost his head to a weapon as it fired accidently in the pits.

The rule is clear and I quote:

"The design should ensure that the weapon cannot be fired during the activation process."

If we don't enforce the rule, someone will, sooner or later, get killed!

[adz600]

So rather then locking shut would holding open be a better method with fp flippers that have free floating arms, Robots in the pits all have there manual exhaust valves open until enetering the arena and being armed dont they ?

[grant_ploughbot]

We have this discussion every year with various roboteer's who turn up without locking bar's, or don't use them when arming up and we simply do not allow it now. There was 1 exception at the champs where they couldn't use it die to bad design and so that robot was armed up when everyone was out the arena and with extra precautions. We won't allow that for the same team next year. For me as an arena marshal, it's just too unsafe any other way.
Where possible locking bars are re-fitted before they're deactivated aswell.

It's in the rules and needs to be designed I to the machine properly.

[Bacon Wizard]

I struggle to comprehend anyone NOT putting one on.. it's obvious isn't it???

[typhoon_driver]

"So rather then locking shut would holding open be a better method with fp flippers that have free floating arms, Robots in the pits all have there manual exhaust valves open until enetering the arena and being armed dont they ? "

Then I might as well not have an LED on my machine because as long as i have a removable link in my hand there is no chance of anything going wrong.

[psycho_fling]

This is something I have also noticed, when near the pen and the flippers are arming up i stand back as there have been numerous occasions of flippers going off and the owners looking sheepish and indicate that their fingers weren't on the controls

so i agree that the rules should be enforced better and the pin removed at the last possible moment

[Shakey]

I completely agree! I have an electric axe feather underway and testing that weapon was scary. It could easily cause serious injury or even kill. Remember guys we design these machines to punch, rip and shred metal or to fling 13.6kg/100kg lumps of metal across the arena, beating a human is a cakewalk for our machines. There is no excuse not to have a locking bar, they aren't difficult to make and in my opinion should only be removed at the very last moment as the robot is entering the arena.

I have done a lot of rifle shooting in the past and in my eyes a feather with the link in and no locking bar on its active weapon is as bad as a loaded rifle with the safety off.

[beast]

ok I was not going to say any thing on this (because I dont use a locking bar when gassing up )

when I gas up the flipper, it can fire at any time as we know, a loaded gun someone said yes I agree and I don't want to pull any thing out of a loaded gun.
safety 1st I agree both beast and all the beautys are a little different to all the gas robots out there I can get at the co2 valve very easy with no hands in robot as they don't have panels
if when turning the gas on I only turn it a 1/4 as it fills buffer tank and at the worst flipper moves slowly and goes up

I do agree with a 17mm socket being used
I know all robots need to be looked at differently I have spoke to kane and grant and johnno about this and willing to listen
but once a robot is gassed up don't go any where near it not even to pull a bar out but im sure wen can have a discussion any time.

[adz600]

i agree with all the safety ideas, just thinking that locking open has less risk possibly then locking shut. If fired with pin shut how do we say that the locking device is strong enough for that amount of force or even the pivot for that matter, locking open would allow the ram for fire freely but with no effect, your arm would never be deep inside the robot over the ram when arming up or shouldnt be. Like maelstrom just requires pulling out on a rope and the arm falls shut, possible trap point but kept at arms reach is very safe, might use this idea on ceros as there is no locking device yet, not got that far into the build.