Locking bars and arming up!

[beast]

if it fires yes it will be hard to get the bar out you just un fire but if the valve is passing you have to dump the gas


the device strong enough depends on welds etc and some of the welds I have seen are a bit poor and would never pass a weld test

locking up I realy don't like that idear at all.

[Max]

Just to add to the discussion- I have had problems with both of my spinners where I have powered it up with the locking pin in, it turned out that the motor was actually turned on! So it burnt out the motors which was annoying. If I hadn't had the pin in I woul have seen it start to spin and could have just ripped out the link immediately.
Although it could be argued that it was a good job I had the bar in otherwise it would start spinning and could hurt someone, so I am not really sure what my point is!!

[typhoon_driver]

Don't EVER bother turning on a spinner without a restraining device in there. You can buy new motors, you can't buy new fingers, limbs etc

John you of all people should be using the correct restraining devices being someone that has been in the sport for years.

[Bacon Wizard]

Someone was telling me on my build thread:

"I'd gladly take a shotgun to any of my bots"

And yet there are bots out there with weapons that scare the crap out of you, yes?

There ya go then.

[widow_twanky]

IMO it does depend on the robot, method of turning the bottle on, position of the valves etc.

The way hydra, dantomkia and rattler are built with access to the side for arming etc means they can fire all they like, if you aren't in line it's not a problem. The only one which moves is rattler and the gas key puts you well out of the way anyway. A misfire happened at the 02 with no issue on rattler (then disturbed). They are designed to be armed this way. They will also not turn themselves over if they misfire.

That said there is absolutely no way I would arm Diablo without a locking bar in it. The valve is in the robot and it throws itself all over the place when it fires, it would be simply suicidal to take the same approach.

[beast]

Don't EVER bother turning on a spinner without a restraining device in there. You can buy new motors, you can't buy new fingers, limbs etc

John you of all people should be using the correct restraining devices being someone that has been in the sport for years.

As I said Gary we can talk about this all day I am will to talk and explain why and how at any event and even fire the flipper and arm up all safely

Ps we are not king about the locking pins in the pits just the arming up

[robotwars]

Thought I'd better comment as it concerns my misfire.

Firstly, it wasn't a near miss, it was a safe miss the rules in place worked.
I use a tool Armed from the side, it takes my had away from the robot and I've campaigned for years everyone should use one.

It misfired due to a regulator fault, I always treat the robot that it might fire, and it makes the scariest noise when it fills the buffer.
The robot fired and it flipped onto its back. Not an issue as my hand was well out I the way.

However ......

I've always been against locking pins holding flippers down, as I've thought a misfire while removing and you're in trouble.
But I was wrong ... Yep I'm admitting after this weekend I was wrong.

I will be fitting a locking bar to ripper before it goes to the new owner, and the new ripper will be designed with a locking bar in place.

When I arm it up, if it fires it doesn't matter!!
The robot will get to a stable state and one quick pull of the bar will then remove it.

I had already changed my mind when I fitted a locking bar to TR2 when I built it as it was a great addition.

Plus every machine should have one, and as part of an annual tech check it must be fired in the arena to prove it works and is strong enough.

John
Robot Wars.

[Shakey]

Someone was telling me on my build thread:

"I'd gladly take a shotgun to any of my bots"

And yet there are bots out there with weapons that scare the crap out of you, yes?

There ya go then.

I think you may have misunderstood. It is not about a robot damaging another robot accidentally when arming. It is about people being seriously injured by a robot without the proper safety restraints, people should be scared of the weapons they aren't there to give out gentle hugs.

[Liftoff]

Just a thought on the subject...

For pneumatic flippers, I believe that main issue is opening the gas supply, where the human is in physical contact with the machine. It's possible to replace the dump valve with a 3/2 solenoid valve in line with the main supply, such that when the robot is in its off position, the valve is closed. So you can open the gas supply safely. Then you can turn on the robot, and in turn energise the 3/2 dump valve. That way gas supply to the whole system is delivered remotely without any contact with the robot.

Does it make any sense at all?

[typhoon_driver]

You still have your hand on or in the machine to put in the removable link. You would then potentially have a machine that drove off and flips uncontrollably.

The simple fact of the matter is that all weapons should have locking pins or mechanisms and these should be in place during activation.

[craig_colliass]

As I don't have a flipper I didn't want to add too much to the debate, I do however have a question. There dose seem to be a need for a bar on fast acting weapons like flippers and axes but dose Cherub, Big Nipper or Storm 2 need a retaining bolt?

[grant_ploughbot]

I agree with Jonno on his post about the 17mm socket being used is a safe way to arm and dis-arm the robot's. This year was the first time that we had a few feathers using this method and it did make things easier and less worrying when deactivating them. There was just one issue where the bottle had moved and so all the gas needed to be dumped as the bottle couldnt be closed. However, that could happen to any bottle.

I take John lear's point about opening the bottle slowly and all it will do is raise the flipper slowly. That has happened a few times before and there's no issue with that. The issue arises when things happen that cause valves to fire and fire quickly. we get this the most at our event's, and having a locking bar stops this becoming an issue so I feel that it's most certainly required.

Craig, originally the rules used to state that any moving weapons required a locking bar. However when more electric lifter's and crushers started coming in things were changed as they weren't really required. For example Tiberius or kan-opener would probably need a huge I-beam to stop them from crushing, and once pressure is applied you cant always release it!

I think it's only a concern for very fast moving weapons. Kan-opener had the right idea with having a thin metal tube that popped into the jaws that could be bent easily if the claws closed, but kept people away from walking inside them!

[beast]

well as johnno has said ALL robots must have a locking bar if we are going down that route including yours craig make sure your wheels don't move the body as that is your weapon

I still think its dangerous pulling bars out of a loaded bot

[grant_ploughbot]

Luckily pulling the bars out at our events is my Job - and I'm more comfortable doing that than not doing it

[pressure]

As has been said:
Release the gas slowly, let the robot settle then remove the locking device.
The locking device should be designed such that if there is a miss fire during removal it cannot be thrown or harm the roboteer.
A cord attached to the locking pin is the safest way as you are some distance from the robot.
Pressure mk3 was locked in the closed position (it did miss fire a couple of times and worked), the mk4 is locked open.
Having used both methods I feel locked closed is safer.
I don't think chains wrapped around a flipper or axe are ideal, if there is a miss fire a length of chain makes a nasty projectile!