Build Rules 2011

[grant_ploughbot]

Re: Build Rules 2011

If only our arena was a little bigger!

[Kenny]

Re: Build Rules 2011

like mouldy says i don't see anyone rebuilding a heavyweight if the rules was changed , i remember event organisers were complaing because heavy flippers are getting too powerful, if the rules was changed that 20kg is alot of differance at throwing robots i don't see any arena taking the impact of a heavyweight hitting it , does that mean flippers will after be restricted later because this will happen with the technology being put into robots nowadays, plus not having the extra weight for the armour like hardox etc with a weapon in a robot, what will happen is people will start making ramming robots again, making shows worst with boxes pushing each other around

[Chris230291]

Re: Build Rules 2011

what will happen is people will start making ramming robots again, making shows worst with boxes pushing each other around

just as bad as watching flippers vs flippers in my opinion. i want wanton destruction! remember how the robots on tv series were constantly changing and progressing, different new types of weapons were becoming introduced each series? why no more? it seems like all the builders have hit a wall, whats stopping people? i understand that some people (including myself) aren't cleaver engineer type people that can design new types of effective weaponry. its just a shame that those that are maybe capable don't bother, or at least don't seem to be.

[james...venom]

Re: Build Rules 2011

Hi Guys

At Robo Challenge we are also looking at how we can keep the sport evolving. Keep it interesting and fresh. At the 2010 UK Champs it was great to see the awesome spinners and the boundaries that are being pushed to the limits is fantastic. One thing worried me though was the lack of diversity, 3 flippers, no axes & no crushers. With these sort of robots missing I personally feel the sport will evolve in one direction until there are just spinners and bricks (exactly how america has gone and killed itself).

Now we have all had the banning bricks debate, but I don't think it will work right now as there are some great brick machines eg Tiny Toon. Unfortunately people won't build new and different machines unless they can be competitive. At the moment if anybody built a crusher or an axe they would get written off by a spinner and have no impact against the bricks. So I feel we need to look at the rules to encourage different robots to be built. There are a couple of suggestions I am thinking.

1 - Limit the top armour on robots.

This would be very hard to scrutinise however could have a great effect. Not sure that it is possible to do right now.

2 - Limit the weight of robots with out an active weapon to 12kg or lower.

I've discussed this with a few people. Most seem happy with it however I don't feel it will change anything. Captain Scarlett weights just 7kg and is still very competitive. It also just promotes spinners which also isn't what we need. So another thought is...

3 - Minimum ground clearance of 3mm for all robots with either a spinning weapon or no active weapon. (the 2 most popular robot types)

This is what I personally would like to see. I think that it won't take much away from the spinners and the brick bots can still do there thing with the spinners. Robots that don't comply at the moment would only require an easy fix to be back in the rules. It just means those 2 different types of machine (the 2 most popular) are a little more venerable to flippers, crushers and axes. I feel this would encourage these types of machine and make them more competitive.

This is something that I really feel needs to be in place by next year other wise the 2011 UK's is going to be spinners vs bricks and Tiny Toon walks it again. Whats your thoughts

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Build Rules 2011

Ill go for number 3

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: Build Rules 2011

Option 3 would be the most straightforward to implement and regulate, although I'm not 100% that it is of benefit to axes and crushers much as top armour could still be quite thick. The only thing would be, how much of the robot would a ground clearance rule cover? For example, the old Drumroll (so Boner) has a ground clearance at the back of roughly 20mm, but the front of the robot rests on the chassis so the GC varies from 20mm to 0mm. This could be true of several other robots. With Boner, there is space under the drum (if you're tough enough) to get a flipper or wedge under and lift it up. But another robot might have that 0mm all the way across at the front. Maybe there needs to be something about the 'leading edge' of a wedge robot being 3mm off the ground?

Dunno, definitely needs to be thought out and implemented well but I agree that something needs to change to get more diversity. Certainly a worthwhile discussion.

[psychostorm]

Re: Build Rules 2011

At Robo Challenge we are also looking at how we can keep the sport evolving. Keep it interesting and fresh. One thing worried me though was the lack of diversity, 3 flippers, no axes & no crushers. With these sort of robots missing I personally feel the sport will evolve in one direction until there are just spinners and bricks).

Unfortunately people won't build new and different machines unless they can be competitive. At the moment if anybody built a crusher or an axe they would get written off by a spinner and have no impact against the bricks. So I feel we need to look at the rules to encourage different robots to be built. There are a couple of suggestions I am thinking.

2 - Limit the weight of robots with out an active weapon to 12kg or lower.

Not too difficult, keep it in mind.

3 - Minimum ground clearance of 3mm for all robots with either a spinning weapon or no active weapon. (the 2 most popular robot types)

This is what I personally would like to see. I think that it won't take much away from the spinners and the brick bots can still do there thing with the spinners. Robots that don't comply at the moment would only require an easy fix to be back in the rules. It just means those 2 different types of machine (the 2 most popular) are a little more venerable to flippers, crushers and axes. I feel this would encourage these types of machine and make them more competitive.

As Jamie said, you may wish to amend that to allow wedges. Try:

Minimum ground clearance of 3mm for all robots with either a spinning weapon or no active weapon with the exception of a scoop/wedge on one side.
Any spinning weapons must be more than 3mm off the floor.

Here's some ideas I'd like to propose:
Any shuffler/walker must have a section of chassis 25mm away from any legs.
Any robot deemed by the judges to have ripped the legs off a shuffler/walker will forfeit the match.*Could you extend that to arms?*

Just my thoughts.

[Leonardomayo]

Re: Build Rules 2011

Any robot deemed by the judges to have ripped the legs off a shuffler/walker will forfeit the match.*Could you extend that to arms?*

If a robot rips a wheels off another robot does it get disqualified?

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Build Rules 2011

I don't think those rules would work with walkers.

[james...venom]

Re: Build Rules 2011

The minimum ground clearance would include the entire robot minus wheels/skids. If you allowed 0mm for wedges there would be no advantage. 3mm isn't a massive amount but would make a difference for flippers etc

[xtreme]

Re: Build Rules 2011

Flippers are still making it to the final every year so we dont want to make it over easy for them. I think if boxes were limited to 10-12kg that would be a good move, People wouldnt just be able to build and indestructable box and charge head on into spinners knowing they wont take damage. With the ground clearance thing its probably a good idea but will it make it too easy for the flippers against spinners? A horizontal spinner would still engage but if you had 3mm ground clearance under a vert spinner a flipper robot would drive straight under without been touched.

[cliveb]

Re: Build Rules 2011

Where do I start?

2007 Champion Mini Mighty Mouse (Flipper)
2008 Champion Beauty 2 (Flipper)
2009 Champion Beauty 2 (Flipper) 2nd Aftershock (Flipper) 3rd Savage Evo (Spinner)
2010 Champion Tiny Toon (Rambot) 2nd Beauty 4 (Flipper) 3rd Boner (Spinner)

2007 Tag Team Champions Beauty 2 / Rip (Flippers)
2009 Tag Team Champions Beauty 4 / Explosion ( Flippers) 2nd Aftershock / Heatwave (Flippers) 3rd Little Hitter / LS2 ( Axe/ Spinner)

European Champion Beauty 2 (Flipper)

Looks pretty diverse to me, if not a bit one sided towards the flippers.

The Champs this year had 1 axe (Asgard),Venom (Crusher)was there but Captain Scarlett was entered.Tiny Hurtz was there but isnt yet finished.Basher(Axe) was entered but didn't turn up.I can think of 3 very good flippers that would probably have been there if the Champs were not in school term time: Explosion,Wedgie and Heatwave ( 2 seeded robots).Dizzy Tilly (FBS) would also probably have been there,hence diversity again.

If a change in weight or build rules were to be brought in,it would scrap any plans that anybody may have for a world championship as 13.6 kilos is now the standard weight limit.

I thought that the 4 judging criteria were Style,Control,Damage and Aggression.Surely the Style and Control are a main part of a Rambot against active weapons.It's not always about driving straight into your opponent.Tiny Toon is one of the oldest Featherweights still fighting,if it had that much of an advantage it would have won before now,so I don't understand James comment about Tiny Toon walking it again next year.

Clive

[razerdave]

Re: Build Rules 2011

I'm in complete agreement with Clive on this one, there would have been much more weaponry out there at the UK champs but circumstances were such that it changed. And I also agree with the statement of style and control required to use rammers to their full extend.

[Mouldy]

Re: Build Rules 2011

I like the idea of rule 2 ...BUT

..The problem with all these rules is if a world champs was ever held.. You'd basically be discouraging competitors from across the world from entering unless they modified there machines...The whole point in the recent rule changes (weight increase) was to get the UK robots to be inline with other country's. I think making new rules now would totally un-do the work thats been done to get a global rule set.

[james...venom]

Re: Build Rules 2011

I understand your points however I feel you are looking into the past regarding past champions. Looking at this years champs and the future it is only going to become a more extreme version of what it already is. Only 3 flippers entered. No crushers or axes because they stand very little chance. This is what i feel we need to change. We need more diversity.

Look at America and at is where the sport is going if the rules don't adapt.

I think it's a case of it's very easy to produce a good ram bot or spinner. We need to do something to encourage a variety of robots to compete and make it easy to produce for example a crusher which is competitive.