This isn't fun anymore

[paulc]

This isnt fun anymore

*Hits Martijn*

[alex_holt]

This isnt fun anymore

I wont deny Im a conceptualist and that I deal in should work in theories against your considerably greater direct technical experience but I do try to work on whether things will work or not, and if they dont I fix them, simple as that. However, when you come out with arguements phrased in the same vein as the weight bonus for red robots arguement it just cheeses me off because it just tends to come off as you stating your oppinions as fact in a rather condescending tone. Thats not to say there is no merit to any of your arguements, but rather annoyance at the way you phrase them as absolutes.

Anyway, to the actual discussion at hand:
The point being that with armour or drive its easy to see the direct effect upon a design.
Weapon a will piece armour X but not armour y in a direct hit.
Motor q and motor p are both run at 24 v, p produces mroe power but q is considerably lighter.

The thing with batteries is that the effect is considerably more subtle, takes a lot more knowledge to get right, is as Ive said before is an invitation to writing not backed up by reality in any kind of damage state which will effect the draw, and as damage in vapours is often massively overinflated compared to reality (another issue which I think needs to be addressed perhaps) is just going to be got wrong and negatively effect the realism of fights as a result.

And at the end of the day, this isnt real robots - we cant experiment with things in a real robot and have visible measurable effects of things to compare to one another to see what works best, so for all intents and purposes unless you are going to be meticulous about it (as you are, being the only major vaporbotteer to have sufficient experience to do so) a robot design is a hypothesis.

My main concern is that I think we are currently about perfectly balanced between the scissors/paper/stone state of affairs and all of vapours being just a series of tedious technical chores, and personally I suspect that detailled battery stats are the first step in tipping it over into the tedious technical chore side.

Vapourbots is about a bit of fun, not about becoming engineering experts.

[leorcc]

This isnt fun anymore

Alex, Thats a fair enough assessment I think.

How about when all the hard stuff is done on a website like this one:

http://architeuthis-dux.org/torquecalc.asphttp://architeuthis-dux.org/torquecalc.asp

Would that be of more help?

(Message edited by leorcc on August 15, 200

[knightrous]

This isnt fun anymore

Ah, I totally forgot about the Tentacle calculator! Good post there Leo.

Alex, it doesnt have to be a chore, it might be the first time, but once some simple knowledge is formed, it becomes easy. You could get to a point that, when you put two LEM130s into a design @ 36v, you know to put 3 x 36v packs in with it to get the full potential of the motors. If we can form some cheat sheets (Like a bus time table, pick the day and the time, and you get the number of the bus you have to catch), so you can just select a motor and a voltage and it will tell you what you need, you can easily knock up accurate info about a design.

[Guest]

This isnt fun anymore

^What Aaron just said^
If we can form some cheat sheets (Like a bus time table, pick the day and the time, and you get the number of the bus you have to catch), so you can just select a motor and a voltage and it will tell you what you need, you can easily knock up accurate info about a design.

I agree! That sounds like a really good idea tov me

[majinb]

This isnt fun anymore

so, we do what we always do, take 1 minute of our time to look up what batteries we need in Aarons chart, and everything proceeds as normal?

... I can live with that...

[majinb]

This isnt fun anymore

btw, remember the days of NSBFL when Frank actually asked for kJ output of all spinning weapons and provided us a teamcosmos link for us to calculate this for those who cant do so themselves...

providing a link to a battery chart each tournament wont be THAT much different than that...

[knightrous]

This isnt fun anymore

Okay folks, Im putting my money where my mouth is, Ive knocked up a rough calculator for batteries.

http://vapourbots.crystalnode.net/files/battery_calc.xlshttp://vapourbots.crystalnode.net/fi...ttery_calc.xls

its an excel file, but Im going to look at making a web page version. The figures for the batteries might not be 100% in regards to weight and amperage rating (just running it off the top of my head at midnight, errors expected, will update with correct figures soon)

If you dont have Office or the brilliant replacement Open Office, here is a print screen of what your missing out on ;-)

http://vapourbots.crystalnode.net/images/technical/battery_calc.png Battery Calc

Simple enough? Thoughts and comments appreciated!

[knightrous]

This isnt fun anymore

bug 1 fix... weight of several packs not calculating.. now fixed and uploaded.

[alex_holt]

This isnt fun anymore

That looks useful, but right now it needs some kind of reference against motors to mean something, unless you mean for that part of it to come from the other site Leo linked to?

[leorcc]

This isnt fun anymore

Cheers Aaron. It is a start.

To be honest, I would just only do the A123s because:

1: They have the best power to weight ratio.
2: In vapourbots we dont have to pay for them.

[knightrous]

This isnt fun anymore

@Alex: This is just the first part, Im looking at doing a similar one for motors in the sheet.. The Tentacle calc will work with it, but provides some good information that I cannot calculate (amperage to wheel spin etc etc).

This is just a rough way of getting people past the excuse of its too hard to put batteries into stats and onto a providing more accurate stats to benefit all involved

@Leo: I put NiCD because people are still a little confused on the new technology. People are use to voltages in stages of 12v, while the A123s are not. Also, most people who play with the lithium batteries speak in terms of cells per pack instead of voltage, as yourself would know, but a vapourboteer (new or old) might not. The idea is to accommodate all, and move this community forward, minimising arguements and providing results :wink:

[leorcc]

This isnt fun anymore

Good point, never mind me then.

[mark_m]

This isnt fun anymore

http://www.hyperdynamic.co.uk/Mark%27s%20Robot%20Calculator2.htmhttp://www.hyperdynamic.co.uk/Marks%...alculator2.htm

Just select the type of cell and type the number of cells and it will give you the maximum total power output, the weight and the volume occupied.
You can even type in custom figures for other cells. Ive not added A123 cells yet nor the latest LiPos.
You can also select combinations of motors and it will show you the maximum amount of power they can consume before blowing up.
I think this table makes it easy to check if a robot is overweight or got insufficient batteries, even for poeple who know nothing about either.
Any suggestions for improvements, let me know.

[Guest]

This isnt fun anymore

Aarons spreadsheet there works for me

Really simple and effective (I hope)