How Could I Improve...

[knightrous]

How Could I Improve...

The usual mod for running the Dewalt 24v Hammer drills on 36v is the Dustin Mod. Basically they replace the bell housing and a few other bits and it allows them to run a bit longer before exploding... Also, Im not too sure how well they will go in a HW... You might want to consider a pair of S28-400 Magmotors @ 24v. Slightly heavier, but less space and more reliable.

[kodster]

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Are S28-400 MagMotors really the best DC motors on the market for heavyweights today?

[knightrous]

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Its really hard to class any motor as the best... It all depends on design and application. I prefer the S28-400 Magmotors over the LEM130s, because of the lower current draw, they are only 75mm in diameter, which means you can make robots 100mm tall (allowing 50% more side armour for the same weight!), instead of 150+mm with the LEM130s. Plus you need a stack more batteries and voltage to get the power out of the LEM130s.

Check these videos out.

Sewer Snake (S28-400s) VS Karkas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmTgmvb95bAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmTgmvb95bA
Storm 2 (LEM130s) VS Mute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvlT2wMDSU8http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvlT2wMDSU8

Who had more control and more push?

[joey_picus]

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It was actually a middleweight design I had that I upscaled a bit, hence the Dewalts...if I had the Mags instead, would I still be able to use the 36v for short periods or would I have to scrap that?

[craig_anto]

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I used Dewalts on 36v for a version of one of my robots (Heavyweight) so they can handle it,

S28 or LEM130? Dont confuse speed for power, Storm has more kinetic energy than Sewer Snake, SS bounces alot more than storm as well, there both good robots but its not about power in the motors its about the traction in the drive, Ive seen storm been out pushed by Terrorhurtz which has 24v Bosches
The best value motor in my opinion is the 24v Bosch GPA,

Example, Tanto V3 had eteks on 5:1 and it was slow top speed but plenty of torque literally nothing could out push it, Tanto v4 has Eteks on 3:1 ratio, its much quicker and the gearbox has more torque however its had less pushing power, i got the speed i wanted but lost the power that has in the past beaten Tornado

[leorcc]

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I agree with Craig, I would prefer the GPA over any mag or Lem any time.

Kan-opener won the tug of war with 2 Boshes.

[andrewj]

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Are S28-400 Magmotors the best on the market for real robots, Id say no because of their price. Are S28-400 Magmotors the best available for vapourbots, Id say yes by a long way. They are smaller and lighter than their competitors, require less in terms of batteries and are still very powerful.

Bosch 750w: 24v, 1hp, 3.8kg
S28-400 Mag: 24v, 4.5hp, 3.1kg
LEM 130: 24v, 1hp?, 3kg

The reality is that vapourbots are very different to real robots. Where in reality things like better traction, better drivers, lower wedges and so on all come into play, we seem to base pushing abilities on motor stats. In which case, the S28-400 is the best all round motor for this purpose. But this is just my opinion.

[mark_m]

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2 x S28-150 Mag: 24v, 6hp, 3.6kg
2 x dustins: 36v, 4.4hp, 3kg
2 x astro 90s: 24V, 4hp, 1.8kg
4 x astro 40s: 24v, 4hp, 1.4kg

There are alternatives.
Im not sure the belief that 36v of batteriss weighs more than 24v is entirely true. For the same power output, the higher voltage setup will draw less current, use lighter wires and a lighter speed controller. It could even be the same size and number of cells just arranged differently. Most of the high performance motors benefit a lot from running at higher voltages: http://www.robotbooks.com/magmotor_tips.htmhttp://www.robotbooks.com/magmotor_tips.htm,

Also, Bosch 750w are actually about 1.5hp peak.

they don€™t have breaks€¦ we cannot control how fast they go to the same effect
What do speed controllers do then?

[joey_picus]

How Could I Improve...

Its a bit more difficult to gauge and control the speed of something when youre about ten metres away holding a transmitter, as opposed to sitting on it with a steering wheel.

Admittedly, if you could do that it would make life easier because thered be a lot less spinners around

[knightrous]

How Could I Improve...

quote:

Im not sure the belief that 36v of batteriss weighs more than 24v is entirely true. For the same power output, the higher voltage setup will draw less current, use lighter wires and a lighter speed controller. It could even be the same size and number of cells just arranged differently.

The key words there are same power output. Unless your current limiting the motors to provide the same output at the higher voltage, the motors are going to draw more power due to the higher voltage.

quote:

2 x S28-150 Mag: 24v, 6hp, 3.6kg
2 x dustins: 36v, 4.4hp, 3kg
2 x astro 90s: 24V, 4hp, 1.8kg
4 x astro 40s: 24v, 4hp, 1.4kg

The alternatives are definitely there, but a lot of them are really only alternatives on paper. I know I wouldnt put any Astro 40s in a heavyweight, simply because they are too small, I had a pair of these a while back and with some testing, they heat up real quick. Ive seen a few FW smoke these on weapons (Typhoon Cadet @ RoboGames?).

Team Whyachi have had some success using the Astro 90s for drives in HWs, but rarely do these bots do any form of pushing. Last bot was Warrior SKF and they used 4 of them.

Dustins are the same as the astros, brilliant motors for the lighter classes, but still get toasty. Craig, you ran a set in your heavy weight, was the top speed and did it do any pushing?

The S28-150s I do see working, the main thing they have over the other motors is more thermal mass. Id still prefer to use a 400 though. Im trying to think of who did testing of S28-150s as drive motors and said they would never use them in a HW again...

Entirely my own opinion based on what Ive seen over the years. Happy to be proven wrong

[craig_anto]

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no push what so ever, could get 8mph yea they got really hot, i know another guy who ran dewalts and stripped the gearboxes

[knightrous]

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Confirms my thoughts then Aussie featherweight King Cobra nearly gets his 18v Dewalts glowing on an 8cell pack of A123s

[joey_picus]

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So the message is Go for the Mags?

[Guest]

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Heres another one. Thanks to Kody again. Let me know if you think it needs improving please.

Name: Secret

Shape: Very low invertible box.

Colour: Body cyan, skirts light green, disc white with grey teeth.

Speed: 12mph

Weight: 100kg

Armour: 7mm titanium, 5mm titanium skirts

Drive: 2 S28-400 MagMotors running on 24 volts

Power: 4 NiCad Battlepacks running on 24 volts

Motivation: 2 wheel drive, Vulkalon rubber on the wheels for traction

Ground Clearance: 5mm under side and rear skirts.

Turning Circle: 0

Dimensions: 105cm x 70cm x 10cm

Weapons: Horizontal disc running on 2 S28-400 MagMotors on 24v. The disc is made of hardox, has a diameter of 60cm and weighs 17.5kg. The two 15cm long teeth are also made of hardox and weigh 2.25kg each, so the entire disc weighs 22kg, and thanks to that KE calculator, it produces 97.64kJ. Has a spin-up time of about 4.5 seconds.

Srimech: Invertible.

Strengths: Destructive weapon, good all-rounder otherwise.

Weaknesses: Tires can be hit by axes and crushers, high spin-up time for disc.

[bartmanhomer]

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Name: Sir Spinalot
Weight: 100 KG
Shape: Circle
Color: Light Blue with a painted USA Flag
Dimension: 800mm x 800mm 120mm
Locomotion: 4 foam-wheels, the wheels are 4 x s28-400 magamotors with 8 x v24 3600ah battery packs
Ground Clerance: 10mm
Speed: 20mph
Armor: 5mm titanium
Weapon: 2000x8x8 titanium spinning bar that runs 1000 rpm with 4 x s28-400 magamotors
sri-mech: Yes, the self-righting bar is a electric linear acutator that is on top of Sir Spinalot
Strength: Powerful Weapon
Weakness: Vulnerable when weapon is disable