Tool box

[s8nsmum]

Tool box

One thing that I find absolutely essential is a cordless drill, mine is only 9.6v but it is a life-saver. If you can get a higher voltage then that will do the drilling better but the screwdriving worse, horses for courses really, just dont pay extra for a hammer action one for robot building, totally pointless.

[kaideejee]

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Andrew,

Most modern further education colleges (at least those where they do GNVQs and stuff) will do practical courses like welding and plumbing and what have you. Whether theyll be short courses or full two year jobs (thatd be fun - maybe nexy year) I dont know.

My own course is an Introduction to welding 20 hours over 10 weeks course at a local agricultural college. If you have one of these local then it might be another good bet. Its given me the chance to use gas, stick, MIG and TIG welding, as well as brazing, and its got all the machine tools you could ever feel like shaking a stick (electrode?) at. I just wish I wasnt on my final week next week.

As to the size of lathes - Chronos (several links above) stock a small benchtop lathe with a distance between centres (workpiece length) of about 30cm - fine for pulleys and single wheel axles etc. I think its called the unimat and it would be significantly better than nothing. It also has a milling head that you can attach to increase the versatility.

Id love a Myford Super 7 but its (a) HUGE by my standards (I only have a small shed) and (b) HEAVY and (c) WAY too expensive for me - even for a bashed second hand jobby. Machine mart do brand new engineers lathes for about £600. Might be worth a look if you have the money to spend.

Oh and when you buy the welder - dont buy one of those shields that auto-darkens when you strike the arc UNLESS its a decent one (probably £100+ - they use ESAB at the college - about £150) - advice straight from the welding tutor. Youre risking your eyes otherwise. I use a hand held shield (permanently dark) for both arc and MIG and thats safer than a cheapo auto helmet.

-- Kev

[storm]

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Andrew, email me. Address on profile !

Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com

[blazerbotics]

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buying cheap lathes isnt a good idea. The lathe might be £600, but you will still need to buy eveything else for it which can be expensive (a chuck for the clarke one is about £100).

We bought a 2nd lathe last spring, i think its was about £200, but we got everything we could ever need with it. Myfords, although popular, arent the best, and can be very expensive. Keep a look out in your local paper and Ad Mag for 2nd hand lathes/mills/welders.

[fluppet]

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Alan: Thank you. £200 I could stretch to (in a month or two) especially for the kind of thing Kev mentions; £600 is a bit more of a problem.

Kev - thank you, Ill do some investigating!

Joseph: thanks, Ill starting looking at them as more than a source of gearmotors. :-)

Ed: Have done!

Thanks all.

--
Fluppet

[big_nipper]

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Lathe we got was donated to us. The company never used it and when I told them what it was for they were glad to get rid of it. Even delevered it the 50 miles for free using one of there vans. Only problem was it had been converted to single phase and the motor was too small. We put it back to 3-phase and changed the gearbox oil and its been fine since. Its a nice Colchester Student with metric & imp thread cutting gearbox built in.

Milling Machine cost us around £500 without any tooling but managed to get most for free. It was however a litte harder to get in the back of the garage.

Look around and be paient and eventually you will find a bargin.

[Guest]

Tool box

€œbuying cheap lathes isnt a good idea€
IMO, it depends on the kind of work, for building robots, a chinese lathe will do the job, if you have the possibility of checking before buying, because the quality standards are very different, from decent to very poor or unusable.
Last year we bought a medium size chinese lathe (300*1100) for manufacturing custom made pneumatic cylinders, (because the spindle bore of our very accurate leinen- lathe was too small) and i was surprised about the accuracy of the basic machine, spindle nose tolerances are less then 0,003 mm, bed, supports, cross feed and headstock is also in decent quality (for our utilisation). Price approx. 1500 Euros. But at first I tossed away the original chuck and replaced it by a german Rhm- chuck (price half the whole machine), the quality of the original one was very poor. After a litle adjustment (tailstock, etc€¦.), the machine works very fine.
At home in my basement I have a Super 7 with screwcutting gearbox (bought used for 800 euros, including a lot of accessories from the medical department of the university of heidelberg). IMO the best small lathe for hobby using in the world, but the prices for new ones are ridiculous high. (7000 Euros for the new S7 plus on the continent). Last year in nottingham I visited the myford shop in beeston, afther the first visit, my wife tried to hide my credit card .
My milling machine at home is a very simple chinese mill- drill, but sufficent for almost all kinds of work. For advanced works I have acces to several deckel toolmaker millers.

Regards
Helmut

[Guest]

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http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/discus/messages/89/1743.htmlhttp://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/disc...s/89/1743.html

[Guest]

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Hi, clarke Urmm... Clarke machinery i would stay away from. although clarke welders are fine, i have one myself. you will find that there isnt much to go wrong with welders all it is really is a transformer. I have never used a frem one, i tend to stay away from ferm.

hope this helps.
Danny

[richard_morris]

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Ferm and Clarke are different brand names for the same kit - cheap to buy - and unfortunately it shows. My Clarke hydraulic bender is good though!

Other essentials - Decent cable stripper (prevents losing those extra strands when you use a penknike) Decent cable crimper - will safe a lot of headaches in the future.

Another robot essential - 2 bottles of thread locker (Loctite). One should be Nutloc - for fasteners you want to be able to get apart but dont want to shake loose. The other should be Studloc - serious stuff and the chemical equivalent to welding - forget ever removing a fastener coated with this! If you want to be sure either threadlocker adheres properly - get a big can of brake cleaner and wash the nuts and bolts in it first.

If you want to use pop-rivets, dont buy the B&Q cheapo - they are rubbish. Get a good one instead. I like the Lazy Tong type - in fact I want to build one into a robot!

Richard

[mightymouse]

Tool box

You could try to get a job in an engineering shop, I have access to a CNC Mill and several Colchester Lathes.

Machining is only half the story, back home in the garage most of the assembly work is done with little more than a Bosch 240v drill, a Bosch 14.4v cordless drill, a Bosch angle grinder and a Bosch variable speed jig saw (I have cut 1/2 thick ali plate with this). You may spot a common theme here, this is because any other tools from other manufacturers have burnt out and the bosch stuff hasnt.

I cant offer any advice on whether the clark or other hobby mc tools are any good as I havent really used them. The machines we have at work are not necessarily more accurate, they are just more rigid and can take heavier cuts. Hence I can machine in minutes something that can take hours on a hobby machine. The only recommendation I can give is that if you buy a bench drill try to get one that will allow you to position drill accurately.

I might also point out that I work to a very tight budget and without access to the machine shop I would have no robot.

A big bottle of loctite 601 will get you out of all sorts of trouble. Just dont use it on bolts that you may want to remove later. Use nyloc nuts on the threads you do want to remove.

I use a clarke arc welder (circa £60) and can take up to 3mm rods, it is also still working.

A good bench and vice is a must and dont buy hacksaw blades from B&Q, I bought some and tried to cut a high tensile bolt and all the teeth had disappeared before I was half way through it.

A good supply of WD40, squirt some into a cap and dip drills and taps in it regularly, especially in aluminium, it is a brilliant lubricant and your drills will last forever (well nearly)

[Guest]

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oh well, im new to the robot world, but i think theres a few items not mentioaned

CUTTING FLUID - this cheap stuff will make your drill bits last a hell of a lot longer, use it with your tap & die set as well

WELDING MAGNET - you know those little magnet thingys that hold your work well u weld. £5

IF YOU WERE TO BUY ONE ITEM, ONLY ONE ITEM GET THE BENCH DRILL, I USE MYNE EVERY DAY. I got a cheap one from B&Q 2 years ago £40 it cost me, it still works fine.

[teamchip]

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Lots of contradictory comments above like Clarke machinery i would stay away from. although clarke welders are fine, and....

Ferm and Clarke are different brand names for the same kit - cheap to buy - and unfortunately it shows. My Clarke hydraulic bender is good though!

Basically yes cheaper tools are usually rubbish ...sundries like hacksaw blades by Blackspur and the like are absolutely useless.

However some cheapo power tools can be ok.

I have a cheap Clarke bench drill ...have had it 18 months ..used it resonably often and its been ok ...cost £39.99...precision accuracy? No...but who cares for most amateur stuff

Professional engineers will say its crap and it prob is but I cant afford better.

Also proffesional weldors I have spoken to say that Sealey welders are not great (as with alot of brand names Sealy just put their name on products usually manufactured in the far east etc), but my Seally supermig has worked great for 3 years (bought 2nd hand) and never let me down.

So there is alot of snobbishness about tools....yes you get what you pay for ...but try some cheaper stuff ,,,its not all crap ..if it is you wont buy it again, and we all cant afford the best stuff.

I have some excellent quality tools that I use every day in my job and you can definately tell the difference over cheaper stuff I use.

It would be great to afford the best of everything but its not to be

My advise would be to try some cheap stuff....if its rubbish you wont use it again but you wont be too much out of pocket.

You may also be suprised though at how some cheap power tools may be ok for the job.

Trevor: and dont buy hacksaw blades from B&Q,...depends on the brand...B&Q also sell Eclipse,Sandvic etc blades both of which are good quality.

Tom

[jim]

Tool box

My advise would be to try some cheap stuff....if its rubbish you wont use it again but you wont be too much out of pocket.
I agree, price is not a good indicator of quality. I have a £15 Nu-tool cordless drill which has done surprisingly well - Ive drilled lots of 10mm holes through 3mm thick steel and cut a few 20mm holes out of the same with a holesaw.

Ive also got a Bosch 240v drill and angle grinder, a friend of mine who worked as a construction planner on the City of Manchester stadium recommended them and they are good tools. Ive used one of the £40 pillar drills for about 18 months now and its still going strong. Of course Ive only recently got a garage with an electricity supply - I built most of my current robot just with the cordless drill and a hacksaw.

[kaideejee]

Tool box

I like Bosch stuff too. Got a mains drill, angle grinder, and jigsaw, B&D sander, SIP Welder, and assorted other generic tools, like Challenge cordless drill and circular saw combo, B&Q own brand (Performance Power - not Pro) bench pillar drill, router, mitre saw and cordless multi-tool. Never had one break on me yet. Ive heard a few horror stories about angle grinders tho, so I reckon its best to go branded on those - especially considering how cheap they are.

Incidentally, not sure how common knowledge this is, but Black and Decker is to DeWalt what Bosch Green is to Bosch Blue, and Maktec is to Makita, i.e. a budget/DIY label.

-- Kev