Scorpion xl fault??

[andrewmahoney]

Just been testing Cyberon with my new scorpion xl,and I think I have found a batch fault.
The fault I have is the same as Whirlpool....which is the controller works fine for 2 minutes then the little signal strength light starts to flicker slow at first, ending as a fast flicker.During this time the reciever is very intermittent making the robot judder. The circuit board itself is still cold on the bottom but very slightly warm on top. Whirlpool discovered that if they put a little fan blowing onto the top circuit board, the problem seemed to get better. I have just done a test with my wifes hairdryer and found that, if I blow cold air on top of the circuit board the flashing light slows down and radio reception works. If I switch to heat setting, within a second the controller freezes. The problem I have is that my wife wont let me keep the hairdryer ! So I will have to fit a small fan if my robot is to stand a chance on Saturday. Do you think this is a batch problem or that all Scorpions should be fitted with fans ?!

[leorcc]

Scorpion xl fault??

I sure hope not. I just bought 3 of them.

[typhoon_driver]

Scorpion xl fault??

What motors are you using?

I am guessing that you are pulling more than the recommended continuous current, hense the heat and so the controller cuts out when it gets too toasty. This would also explain why a fan helps ie it removes the heat and stops it from building up.

[geeza]

Scorpion xl fault??

I agree with Gary it does sound like an overheating problem. Is it possible to get a bigger heat sink on it, also like said add a fan to keep it cool.

[andrewmahoney]

Scorpion xl fault??

No its not an overheating problem,....The motors are 24v gold,....The pcb is cold,but to be safe I fitted a larg heat sink with heat conductive paste on to all 4 big black thingies(tech talk)and that stays cold as well.The only thing that gets warm is the little components on top of the pcb,when I say warm i mean just above cold.The fan whirlpool fitted was a tiny computer fan about 30mm body not a big thing,but it must be just enough.... Another clue!.. When i first tryed the scorpion i had it configured with the battery eliminater link in place so i did not need a receiver battery.This caused the same fault to happen but a lot quicker..flashing light within a minute.So i cut the link and fitted a battery.problem solved,robot works fine or so i thaught,as long as you switch on the receiver last minute just before the battle you will make it through without it freezing.

any ideas?:sad:

[stu]

Scorpion xl fault??

I think i maybe having the same problem. Even though im only using the controller for my linear Actuator which is only about 3amps, but the heat and confinded space from my drive motors and batteries etc might be doing the same.

And the top of my board is just, well warmer than cold, but rest is cold.

Did you say the light flickers fast? Coz mine starts flickering fast and then starts to cut out.

If you remove power from the controller and then start it up again (take link out and put it bk in) does the problem go away for a bit?


Mr Stu

[big_nipper]

Scorpion xl fault??

Andrew, hope its not a fault but to me it sounds like a calibration error as the light is only supposed to flash if the input signal is out of range. Set your trims on you transmitter to the middle, power up the receiver first (if not using the BEC), then the scorpion (with the calibrate jumper already in place) and move all your sticks to thier full extents several times then return back to the middle and power down the scorption, then recevier. Finally remove the calibration jumper and test it again. Hope that works. Could you also tell me what type of receiver you are using?

[andrewmahoney]

Scorpion xl fault??

Hi Mark and Stu,I think you are right!!same advice from James.
I have a br6000/dx6
I think the problem is something to do with the compatibility between the dx6 and the scorpion xl
yes Stu,my scorpion works or should I say does not work just like you describe.
I have just re calibrated my scorpion as you said Mark..and it worked!..great! even with my wifes hair dryer on full heat not a stutter.Strange thing to..the scorpions bottom actually gets warm,but this was after a good 5 min of testing.... I was just about to have a beer,then the old flickering light agin,followed by complete shut down.back on the bench the scorpion was just warm,switched the hair dryer on to cold and a few seconds later working again,if a remove power that seems to reset everything back to normal for a while,but now even 2 seconds of heat from the trusty hair dryer and .. shutdown!
I called at cpc tonight an collected a 24v 50x50 fan,so thats my next job.I think if i go through the calibration thing before each battle I probably dont need the fan....i think i will fit it anyway.
What do you think?

[big_nipper]

Scorpion xl fault??

Sounds strange, but I wouldnt put too much heat on it I think the processor is rated to 85C max, but still thats high.

[leorcc]

Scorpion xl fault??

Do you have to re-calibrate every time?

[leorcc]

Scorpion xl fault??

I have a message here from Chris Baron. For some reason his application for the forum (and of Simon Windich) were never approved.

Any way: the message:

quote:

Hi All,

Im the owner of Robot Power, the maker of the Scorpion XL and the Sidewinder.

Let me see if I can shed some light on this problem. From the description of the problem it sounds like it might indeed be heat related. There are a couple of ways the heat can affect the operation of the unit.

1) is obviously to overheat the power chips on the bottom of the PCB.
This is easy to tell because they wont cut out until the inside reaches about 125C and the outside is about 100C. Believe me if you feel them when they are in that state you can tell! The latest version of the software does not require a power cycle to rest after a power chip overheat. So they if they overheat they should come back in a few seconds.

2) Less obvious is that the CPU chip operating frequency is effected by heat. The unit does not have a crystal oscillator and uses the internal CPU clock. We have seen a warmed up chip shift frequency enough for it to think the (valid) radio signal is out of range and thus go into safety shutdown. Some chips seem to shift frequency more than others.
It may be that a batch of the more shifty ones were sent over to you all.

3) is that the 5V voltage regulator may overheat and go wonky if the HV jumper is not clipped when operating above 18V. At 24V the regulator and the largish diode near it should be warm as they are dissipating all of the 24V to 5V drop as heat. This 5V regulator also cuts out well over 100C so it should be easy to figure out if that is the problem.
Using an external RX battery and clipping the BEC jumper will help reduce the load on the internal regulator but this should not be necessary in normal operation.

In this case it sounds like #2. The solution to this is to do some experimentation with the calibration of the unit. a) run a calibration cycle when the unit is at normal operating temp. b) be sure to pull the jumper while the unit is powered on (the procedure mentioned by one poster was incorrect) it has to be powered to store the settings into the EEPROM of the CPU when the jumper is pulled. c) you might try calibrating at 100%-110% ATV in the radio and then reducing that slightly for operation. This can give a little margin and allow some temp variation before the signal hits the illegal zone.

Finally all units should be checked for a recalled voltage regulator
(IC1 chip near the HV jumper). The recalled chip has the identification
3940M3 the replacement chip has L358 or something similar along with some other numbers. You may have to use a magnifier to see the faint lettering on the top of the regulator chip package. If you find you have one of the 3940 regulators you can ship it back to us for upgrade.
Well work with James Baker to get a supply of replacement chips to him for local upgrades.

Regards,

Chris Baron
Robot Power

[jamesb]

Scorpion xl fault??

I have just checked my current stock of scorpion XL controllers.

All but one are of the newer, L538/L358 type, which is reassuring, but there is one of the older type....

This means there is a good chance the older types may have sold to some customers in the UK and Europe recently.

Please could all customers look at your scorpion XL controllers, directly below the HV jumper is a small chip with 3 legs on the side of the HV jumper. This is the chip in question. If it is of the older type, do not send it back yet. I will speak with Chris Baron about the best way to solve the issue. Please email me on James@xbotz.com, but copy to jamz_b@hotmail.com as my email provider is messing about again. If a simple recall is required, I will accept all the returns as Robot Powers European agent and make sure they are returned to you with the modifications. This may not be neccessary, I will confirm what you need to do shortly.

No older type scorpions will be shipped from this date to UK/Euro customers, so rest assured you can be positive this issue will not continue past today. I do have several of the newer type in stock if you are placing an order in the near future.

It is important you make me aware if your controller has this problem before taking further action, so I know how wide spread the issue is, and can discuss the best course of action with Robot Power. Please Email both addresses above as soon as possible to identify your scorpion type.

Many Thanks
James
Xbotz

[andrewmahoney]

Scorpion xl fault??

Hi
Just finished my fan upgrade!..Everything works ok,cant test it properly until tomorrow its to late and to noisy to start running the bot.Twin fans,larg heat sink,seperate battery,and lots of holes for ventalation.Cant do any thing els,so im having a beer.
In answer to your question Leo,no you dont have to always re calibrate,but it does seem that by recalibrating you stand less of a chance of failure,as Chris Baron says it helps if you have a shifty chip so i would recomend re calibrating before you go in to the final on sunday!!
As long as the fan does its job and my robot works I dont mind the extra work,im glad I found out now and not on saturday,I would not be so happy then.
I hope all your scorpions are ok

[andrewmahoney]

Scorpion xl fault??

My scorpion is of the L538/L358 type!

[razerdave]

Scorpion xl fault??

I dunno what scorpion type I have, I bought it from James Baker but I havent tested it yet. Ill wire it in at the space centre