Build Log - Bread Dead Redemption (FW) - First Build.

[McMullet]

Great write up, and great to meet you and see BDR yesterday! Congrats on your victory again and on your performance throughout the day. Those dustpans were amazingly effective, especially at scooping up Wedgeley - seemed to spend a lot of time with either our bottom jaw or a wheel stuck in there!

Is this the Sabretooth ESC you have? If so, it might struggle a bit with two drill motors on each channel. As James says, to run two motors per side you'd just connect them together in parallel to the same channel of the ESC, either by connecting both into the same output on the ESC or making a separate cable to common the reds and blacks. However, 12 A might be a bit weedy to run two motors - the FeatherTwo (which was designed for this type of motor and application) is spec'd for 30 A per motor continuous and 80 A burst. I'm sure that's a bit OTT, but a quick read around suggests "normal" current from a 550 size motor at 12 V is of the order of 10 A. That means there's a fair chance two in parallel will be drawing 20 A a fair bit of the time, especially overvolted with a 4s battery, and you'd be over 100 A if two motors stalled.

In theory, the Sabretooth has overcurrent protection but I wouldn't rely on that save itself, plus if you trip the current limit the drive will cut out and leave you sat there like a muffin.

Regarding tank steering, it says on the Robot Shop site that the Sabretooth "... comes with options for exponential control, autocalibration and built-in mixing. The operating mode is set with the onboard DIP switches ..." So to control the two channels independently, you'd just need to find from the manual which of the DIPs sets the mixing and switch it off - if I'm reading that right. Then you'd have independent control of each channel.

If you want tank steering and two motors a side, these are OK and not too pricey. We have one running the weapon motor in Ensign Crusher and I believe Chris has one driving each pair of motors on Luna-Tic.

Edit: forgot to say, good luck with the updates!

[Ocracoke]

I am gutted I wasn't there for this one to see your bot in action, I had Azriel running for this and all. Anyway, well done on your first event!

Upgrade from a 3s lipo to a 4s, overvolting the motors. More power.

Yup, I'd go for this. 14.8v over 11.1v should make a bit of difference in terms of speed and power.

Ditch the plan of adding an axe and put the spare weight allowance to making the robot 4WD. I'm not sure how to do this with the Dual Sabertooth ESC. Would it be possible to wire two motors together on each side and wire them in to the ESC that way, or would that blow the board? Either that or rig up some drive pods with gears so one motor drives two wheels. I'm not sure yet.

The simplest option is to, as James said, is to put a motor for each wheel in and put them in parallel. I did this with my first Middleweight Kaizen, worked fine but you do need to ensure your ESC can handle it. If your ESC is a 2x25 then I suspect that might be OK though I would recommend putting a fuse per motor in (20A) to prevent the motors from stone killing the ESC and themselves (as I found out).

I would like tank-style steering. It's what I'm used to and just using one stick was proving difficult at times. Again, whether this is possible with a dual ESC, I don't know.

If you mean like a RC car, then yes, you'd want to move your elevator channel to the rudder channel for steering. If you wanted full tank like control, you'd need a different transmitter (one with both sides where the up and down movements are sprung on it) and then turn off the mixing on the ESC, which you can do on the DIP switches. I happen to have one as it goes, might be persuaded to part with it.

Custom made dustpan (will have to happen eventually), or reinforce the current ones. I'm contemplating a Sawblaze style 3-prong pan, but I'm not sure that is needed for now. I'll have a think. The pans held up reasonably, but they may need replacing and modifying if I keep them as is.

Yeah, I'd get the internals "right" first before remaking the body. If you ever wanted a hand in doing this, quite happy to help.

[Theo]

It was great seeing you and Bread Dead for the first time! Definitely one of my favorite events this year.

Your Sabertooth should be okay by my reckoning. Boring Wedgebot uses a 2x12, which is absolutely not up to the task. The current limiting has kept it alive for... nearly a good 7 years now (part of the reason I've not been able to justify getting a new one) but is also a factor to its twitchy performance; even when it does get grip, that then overloads the ESC, but can never kill it..... long story short don'y use a 2.12 kids Your 2x25 looks alright as long as you don't push it overly hard.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes along for the next Dojo, if you ever want a hand with anything, I'm only down the road in East Manchester) Good luck with it mate!

[Mr Manuva27]

Thanks to all for your comments and feedback. I'm still buzzing a week later!

Based on what you guys have said, I've got all the parts on order to redo pretty much all the electrics for 4WD. So much for prioritising, eh? Hopefully shouldn't be too bad now that I've had a bit of experience. Praying that my measurements are right and it all fits, because it's going to be a tight squeeze.

Sam is correct, BDR runs off a 2x12. Based on what Theo said, that may explain the total lack of pushing power last weekend if the ESC overcurrent protection was constantly kicking in.

If you want tank steering and two motors a side, these are OK and not too pricey. We have one running the weapon motor in Ensign Crusher and I believe Chris has one driving each pair of motors on Luna-Tic.

Cheers for that, I've ordered 2. I've also got a Flysky FS-I6X and 2 new motors. In order to fit everything in, I'm dropping back down to 100mm wheels from 120. This means I've ordered new mounts from Nat with the center to base height reduced by 10mm. The smaller wheels should mean more torque too.

Should be a big improvement, if all goes well!

[Mr Manuva27]

Event Report - Robodojo January 2020

Back in action for 2020! Bread Dead Redemption made it's way back to Sherburn in Elmet for it's second ever event.

Pre-event, Upgrades and Objectives

Last time around, BDR went 1-3 (1-4 if you include not starting a fight). In my post event write up, I identified the following concerns and proposed plans:

Improvements

With regards to improvements, it is obvious that the following issues need improving:

• Lack of power

• Lack of traction

• Difficult to control

• Better dustpans

These are the solutions in my head so far:

• Upgrade from a 3s lipo to a 4s, overvolting the motors. More power.

• Ditch the plan of adding an axe and put the spare weight allowance to making the robot 4WD.

• I would like tank-style steering. It's what I'm used to and just using one stick was proving difficult at times.

• Custom made dustpan (will have to happen eventually), or reinforce the current ones. The pans held up reasonably, but they may need replacing and modifying if I keep them as is.

Due to spending half of the time since last Robodojo on holiday, it was difficult to get all of the above achieved. I could have pushed for it, but would have rathered played it safe and have something functional rather than being too ambitious and ruining the robot.

So, the robot was upgraded like so:

Power: Toaster remained on 3S batteries, but the old Sabertooth 2x12a ESC was ditched in favour of 2x Hobbywing 0880 Dual 80a ESCs. If previous discussions were correct, this should give drastically increased power.

Traction: Drive unchanged, still running on 12v Argos drill motors. Making the robot 4WD would have required turning the old chassis in to swiss cheese and dropping the wheel sizes down, which is more than I had time for. The new ESCs also allow for 2x motors per side, so future proof in that regard.

Control: No real change. My budget transmitter was ditched in favour of a Flysky FS-I6X for on board mixing. Still using elevon mixing on one stick.

Dustpan: Honestly, replacing the dustpans was effort. I opted to reinforce the old ones by hammering them flat and attaching 10mm HDPE wedges to the middle and sides. This would primarily strengthen the pans. I also noticed that during the last event, any hits to the corners would flatten the edges at the front, making them less effective in scooping other robots as the event went on. The HDPE was intended to replace that wedge, while also protecting the metal corners from damage.

ETC: I also purchased a 3D printer in the January sale! After a few days tinkering with the settings, I was finally able to print some custom internal mountings for the ESC and batteries, meaning that everything was no longer held together with double-sided automotive tape!


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Objectives

• Maintain/equal 1-3 record from December
• At least 1 win by knockout.

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Event

Day of the event arrived and I found myself on a bench with Vettel's Vengeance, Blue Moon and Woody. Tech check passed, lid back on and we were ready for action!

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Round 1 - Bread Dead Redemption vs Danger UXB


The first event of the year and I got the match I was hoping for! I got my rematch against Danger UXB of Team Death, who I broke down against in December. Unfortunately I lost a motor connection while arming up the robot, so I started the fight on one wheel or risked being DQed again. I couldn't even start the fight in the corner.

The fight went as expected. I got stuck in the wall and was counted out just before I got free. Team Death is proving to be a bogey team for me, with technical issues twice on the run. Given that UXB threw a chain after a hit on BDR, I reckon I would have had a chance had the fight kept going.

Congratulations to Colin for his win, I'll get you next time (again).


The break was caused by the lid, which has to be pushed inside the robot and mounted from the inside out. This was immediately obvious that it had pulled the wire out. This was bodged from the original design of the toaster and is something I was intending on fixing eventually, but has been bumped up to urgently now.

Round 2 - Bread Dead Redemption vs Harald


Motor connections soldered back on, and it was time for a fight with Harald, who was a new opponent to me.

The toaster took off with speed, which was a relief that my electrical improvements had worked. I was able to get under Harald and push him around. Definite improvement from last time. My main objective of the event was to get a win by KO, so it felt great to do that in a convincing manner as early as Round 2.

One observation is that it takes a double tap of the stick to put the robot in reverse, which may be due to the ESC software. Something to look in to, as there were a few occasions throughout the day where I was stuck somewhere awkward and unable to move.

1-1 going in to Round 3. Overjoyed with the performance, I was optimistic awaiting the next draw.

Round 3 - Bread Dead Redemption vs Pressure Point


Oh.


Oh no...


Not going to lie, my heart sank when I heard BDR was drawn against Pressure Point, arguably the most destructive robot in the whole division. A rule change to the Sportsman division for 2020 means that crushers can now use hydraulics, but at limited force. That's exactly what Pressure Point does. Given that Alan had snapped a self righting cable in an earlier round, my only hope was that I could get under him early and tip him over.

Yeah. Ow.

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On the positive side, the dustpans prevented Pressure Point from getting anywhere near the main internals of the robot (although I reckon he could have really done more damage if he wanted to). Damage was all relatively cosmetic. The dustpans given some precision percussive maintenance (read: large hammer) and the side was screwed back in place for the next round.
Loved the crowd reaction though! Even though toaster got munched, it was well worth it to be entertaining.


Round 4 - Bread Dead Redemption vs Ensign Wedgeley Crusher


Another December rematch! This time against my good friends in Team Designed for Demise. I got the victory last time we met, so they were determined to even the score (They even showed me a picture of them practicing in their kitchen on their own toaster with dustpans taped to it!).

After the first impact I lost drive in the same motor as Round 1 again, but I kept going, partly helped by EWC pushing me around! Unfortunately for Simon driving EWC, he found himself stuck on the edge of the arena within my limited turning circle and I scraped another KO! Great fight by the Wedgeley team, always enjoy fighting them.


Summary
Success! That left me 2-2 for the weekend. Not quite enough to make the playoff rumble, but that's ok.
I actually exceeded my expectations, getting 2 wins by KO. Robot is definitely improving, with still plenty of room for more in future. Bring on March!

Room for improvement:

• New dustpans. This has already been done. I've got 2 new pans, 40mm wider than the old ones and 2x thicker and heavier. Weighing 1kg each, this is possibly the most industrial dustpan I can get commercially. The shop description says that "this is the sort of item that will last and be passed down for generations" and has a lifetime guarantee, We'll see about that, shall we?

• Investigate the ESC/Drive issues. Possibly just change the motor for a spare, plus look at the ESC software.

• Redesign the lid. Simply put, I'm not willing to lose another fight because of something so silly as that.

[team death]

Great to see you again Andrew, Initially I thought you were counted out in our fight

before the regulation 10 seconds but looking at the video you were stood still for at

least 10 seconds and Peter got it spot on, normally I will take an easy win anytime

but to find ourselves in a virtual de ja vu situation was real bad luck.

Almost 2 months to the next Robodojo so plenty of time for upgrades for all parties

and given my own repairs are straightforward i'm pleased and looking forward to

another default win next time .

[McMullet]

Great write up again Andy, and congrats on your performance! Despite the nasty perforations in the dustpans they once again did well at fending everyone off. May they long continue to do so, especially the new heavy duty ones.

Speaking of perforation, you can hear me in the background making a horrified noise when Pressure Point went through your side panel... Glad there was no major damage, it looked a bit gruesome.

Well done on beating us (again!), we'll get you next time...

In the meantime, more training for Wedgeley:

One observation is that it takes a double tap of the stick to put the robot in reverse, which may be due to the ESC software. Something to look in to, as there were a few occasions throughout the day where I was stuck somewhere awkward and unable to move.

I should've mentioned that when I recommended those ESCs, so my bad there. It's quite possible I had the programming card in the car... It's a quick job to fix, you just need one of these programming cards: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223471372998
It's also worth increasing the reversing throttle to 100% and possibly twiddling the brakes a bit.

[Mr Manuva27]

So, it has been a little while! Lots of work has been going on, which has basically been a full rebuild of BDR using everything I have learned from the last two events. I'm still unsure whether it is still BDR, or moving on to BDR2, but whatever.

First things first, 4WD has been the aim since December. To accommodate the extra set of motors and wheels, this means a new chassis. A change of colour too! Chassis is 20mm as with last time, with a few extra bits of 10mm in areas where I need the space.

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One of the major learning points was my fight with Pressure Point in January. The joins in the top of the HDPE were too exposed and weakly joined together. To rectify this, the top, side and base panels now all interlock using box joints. This will mean that the chassis material will bear the load of a lot more force when damaged, rather than the screws holding it together.

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Much more secure!

The move to 4WD also meant dropping a wheel size from 120mm to 100mm. This meant new mounts from Nat that were reduced by 10mm to give the same ground clearance as previous. Gearboxes were taken apart and given a bit of TLC with some molybdenum grease. Good as new!

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Electrics were just a straight transfer from the old chassis. To prevent a repeat of the wire pulling incident from January, we resoldered all of the motor connections with solid-core wire.

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The move to 4WD means less space in the toaster, so a mezzanine level has been built in. ESCs go underneath to get all of the motor wiring out of the way. All the battery stuff goes on top for easy access.

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The ESCs have also been reprogrammed to eliminate the issue with having to double-tap the stick to reverse, which was pretty vital. My transmitter has also been converted to a dual spring return setup, so this version of BDR will be running on tank steering (finally!).

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New chassis, same toaster. Design has been changed so I can lift the whole toaster off to do maintenance now, rather than messing around with a lid where the slices are. Much easier. We've also added some domed washers to the screws, which I think look awesome!

Just need to sort out re-cutting the front and back polycarbonate panels, then fit the new dustpans, then we're combat ready for Robodojo next weekend (coronavirus permitting)! Very excited.

[team death]

That long break between Robodojo events has been useful and your four wheel drive should make your

Robot even more competitive -I don't think it was lacking pushing power before just reliability perhaps.

[Mr Manuva27]

Everything in the robot has now been re-wired with single core wire. All soldering points have been redone. Any excess wire from the previous build has been reduced. This should definitely improve the reliability. (Also, you can never have too much pushing power, Colin! )

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Front and back HDPE panels have been done. Also, a 3D printed link holder. Much less exposed than the previous wire dangling out.

Finally, we took it out for a test drive. It's definitely quick!

[McMullet]

Awesome work Andy. Only just got around to reading this after the, ahem, distractions of the last few days.

Looks like pretty much a ground-up rebuild of the whole machine, and very solid one at that. Look forward to seeing it driving in person, whenever that happens, and definitely getting beaten again now.

[Mr Manuva27]

Event Report - Robodojo(s) July 2020

Well, my friends. It has been a while, hasn't it? We have all the improvements to cover, plus both (Yes, both!) Robodojo Sportsman events in July. It's going to be a long one. Make yourself comfortable, grab a brew and settle in for the latest updates from Bread Dead over the last few months.

Improvements

So improvements-wise, we faced a mad rush to get BDR ready for the March Dojo. After working on it constantly for 2 weeks to get it ready, only to have the event cancelled due to the announcement of lockdown, my motivation to work on it dropped through the floor. At the time I last updated this log, all was left was to fit the toaster and the front dustpans. Instead I busied myself with other robot projects, including an antweight, a beetle and acquiring a heavyweight chassis.

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I wasn't expecting featherweight events to return as quickly as they did. Honestly, I was expecting 2020 to be a complete write-off for events in general. When Robodojo announced a July competition, I faced a bit of a dash to get BDR fighting fit.

Toaster

Not much to report here. The intention was that the toaster lifts off entirely to access the internals to avoid a repeat of pulling motor wires out. Easily solved with some stainless steel angle brackets. The previous 10mm polycarbonate top panel on the inside of the toaster was replaced with a 12mm sheet across the outside now that the slices weren't required.

Dustpan

Oh man, here we go. The original pan was to bolt the new pans together in the same manner as the old one. However, the previous complaints were that the middle ridge was affecting the ground scraping capabilities and that the metal was too thin. I had been itching for an opportunity to practice with my new welder and had a sheet of 2mm mild steel lying around, what could possibly go wrong?


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Weld prep.


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I cut out a template from the sheet steel to weld to the underside of the pans to support.


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Success! Ok, the weld quality wasn't great but it held, which I was happy with for a first attempt. Problem was, my calculations had the robot significantly overweight. The angled point to the pan was also affecting our ability to point it down, causing issues with ground scraping. We were going to have to cut some out.


The center join was gone. Having already welded the pans, trying to weld together two sheets of different thickness was going to cause issues.


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Yeah, not great. I had to grind the lip of the dustpan back so the weld wasn't on the leading edge, so the leading edge is only the bottom sheet of steel. Down the middle the dustpans were too thin, so just melted away. I did the best I could, but it isn't pretty. We also added a bar of 10mm HDPE to the top to support the weld there.

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If in doubt, cover it in spray paint. We added some angled HDPE guards to the back of the dustpan to protect against any side swipes.


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Good to go!
Robodojo - 12th July

The day of the event arrived! Masks on faces, we arrived at our pit space for the day alongside Alan with Pressure Point. You could feel the anxiety in the atmosphere due to the social distancing, but as soon as the first fight was done it was like all was well with the world again.

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Oh, and unknown to me, they had added a 2 inch steel lip to the pushout zones, making my plans pretty much useless! This was going to be tough, with most fights likely going the full 3 minutes if I didn't get knocked out.

Round 1 - Exabyte


First round was against Exabyte of Team Phyte, a low wedge similar to Steel Sandwich of the original RW series. I was hoping that the dustpan would be enough to get underneath, which it did. Once I saw their back forks flip under the robot, I left them stranded for an quick knockout win! Off to a good start!

1-0

Round 2 - Red Hot Tilly Pecker & Euphoria

Due to the odd number of robots in attendance, each round included a Triple Threat. The draw wasn't kind for me in this one, putting me against the vicious axe of Red Hot Tilly Pecker and lifting power of Euphoria. Having chatted to both Isaac and Shane beforehand, the early advantage was going to come down to who Tilly went for first. Either Euphoria because of an ongoing friendly rivalry between the two, or me because, well, it's a toaster.

The fight started cautiously too, with each bot waiting to see who made the first move. Euphoria and Tilly went for each other and the fight was on! I got a few good scoops in before Tilly and Euphoria teamed up to flip BDR on it's back and out of the fight. Euphoria later got stuck on the plastic and a few of Tilly's axe hits got to Euphoria's lifter gearbox, which reduced it to a push bot for the rest of the afternoon.

A really fun fight. One slight issue was that I noticed one side of the drive wasn't working while BDR was on it's back. Got it back to the bench and all was well. Hmm. Oh well, hopefully a nice draw in the next round...

1-1

Round 3 - Pressure Point

Oh no. Not again.

Yes, it was a January rematch against pit bench buddy Pressure Point. After the damage it caused in January, I was glad I had made changes with fighting it in mind. The dustpans survived with minor dents, rather than going straight through. A solid fight, I tried my best to keep the dustpans pointed at Pressure Point as I knew he couldn't reach anything vital.

It was all going very well until the drive died on the same side as Round 2 again, at which point I was a sitting duck. Pressure Point took advantage by grabbing the side of BDR and putting it's beak straight through the link, pushing it in to the wheels where the wires got wrapped up and pulled itself out.

Checking the batteries after the fight, each cell was around 3.7V, which led me to believe that the ESC voltage protection was kicking in at nominal voltage after around 2 minutes. If this was true, it meant that I would have to drive like hell to score points and just try to survive when the drive started dying.

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Ouch.

1-2

Round 4 - Neophyte

And what an opponent to test that vulnerability! The second of the Team Phyte bots was Neophyte, a linear actuator driven lifter. Neophyte would need just one good flip to win, so I would have to be on my A-game for the full 3 minutes. Kind of difficult when your drive cuts out after 2:30...

The fight started well, pushing Neophyte around and even managing to bend it's flipper at one point. They managed to get a couple of lifts in, but not enough to topple BDR. When the drive began to fail, BDR was lifted on to it's back just as cease was called. Saved by the bell. BDR was given the win by Judge's Decision.

2-2

Round 5 - Parasite


The final round was against Parasite, the final robot of the Team Phyte triumvirate. This posed a real threat, as the axe would rack up points quickly with the judges. A very close fight that went the full 3 minutes, it was eventually decided by Alex (Judge) inspecting the top panel of BDR for damage before ruling that BDR had been given the W on control and aggression.

This left us at 3-2 for the day. Well placed for points on the yearly leaderboard! When the scores were announced we were tied for 4th, which meant a playoff.

4th Place Playoff - Mattock

4th place was currently contested by Mattock, driven as a loaner-bot by Theo. Theo had also successfully piloted Mattock to 2nd place in January, so was definitely a real threat. We had been angling for a rematch since December when I faced Boring Wedgebot, so it was great to have a fight for meaningful points!

The fight started well, dodging axe blows and getting a few good slams in. Unfortunately the drive died earlier than expected and I was crab walking. I eventually found myself pinned against the wall with axe blows raining down. Due to damage taken in the fight against Pressure Point, the link was held on with a zip tie. One incredibly accurate axe shot was all it took, the fight was over.


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Yes, that's my link on the end of Mattock's axe. If I was going to go out, I'm glad it was spectacular.


So we ended the weekend in 5th, gaining 4 points for the yearly leaderboard which is a fantastic finish considering it is only my 3rd event. Also, the fights I lost were to 1st (Pressure Point), 2nd (Red Hot Tilly Pecker), 3rd (Euphoria) and 4th (Mattock), so there is no shame in that!

Very pleased, with clear areas for improvement.

To make matters better, it was announced that due to dropouts, competitors from the 12th would also be allowed to enter the second event on the 26th! Two weeks to make improvements. How did we get on?


In the next installment: repairs, improvements and the second July round of Robodojo Sportsman!

To be continued....

[Mr Manuva27]

Well, we've now passed my first year of combat robotics. Been a bit quieter than I was expecting, but lots of work going on improving robots for when everything is back to normal.

I forgot to write my follow up to Robodojo July 2, so here's the video and a quick summary:

There were a few minor changes from it's last outing. The link was moved to the back panel and placed under a cover, the batteries were upgraded to 3300mAh 4S from 2100mAh 3S. The base plate was also changed to 10mm from 20mm HDPE to allow weight for the extra upgrades, weighing in at 13.4kg ahead of the event.

The event went ok, going 2-4. BDR performed relatively well (including one of my favourite fights I've ever had vs Luna-tic), but issues came from the extra power moving to 4S. The added pushing power proved too much for the heat-pressed nuts holding the wheels on.

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The early fights on the day started well, but gradually got slower and slower as the wheels fell off. I've invested in some hubs for any future events.


---------------

Anyway, on to the future. BDR has been out of action since July and is in need of a complete redo. While I'm really happy with how BDR is performing, it desperately needs an active weapon. I'm not sure of the overall design, but I'm keen to keep a lot of the positives from this version. Here are my objectives:

• Maintain the control/high pushing power aspect of the robot, preferably keeping the dustpan
• Add an active weapon, currently looking at a Shockwave/Breaker Box/Duck style lifter.
• Alter the shape of the chassis to increase the tip-back angle for fights against wedges.
• Reduce the weight of the robot (all the 10mm polycarb on the toaster weighs 3.2kg!!)

Hoping to get quite a bit of work done on all my bots over the Christmas break. Once I've got a CAD together for Bread Dead 2, I'm hoping to have it ready for the early months of 2021.

[Ocracoke]

Some good fights there, nice work! Just thinking on the wheel hub problem, perhaps a nut with a plate on it which bolts to the wheel and then either a pin through that nut and shaft or a nyloc on the other side of the wheel might be more robust?

[McMullet]

That fight against Luna-Tic was brilliant - can see why you enjoyed it. Lots of action, great driving on both sides and a well-deserved win. And well done for de-wheeling Reaver!

I can see what you mean about the speed dropping off over the day. It looked hard to control at low speed at the start, though maybe that's just me.

For anti-tipping features, I was quite pleased with the effectiveness of Wedgeley's springy bits of HDPE - not very aesthetic but they result in a huge (effective) footprint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j79qMRbPKA