TXR - FLOW

[james...venom]

Re: TXR - FLOW

As everyone has said fatigue plays the biggest part here. Regretfully once a robot has been in combat the fatigue has started. There are 2 options to try and cover this situation. Add a rule that ALL pneumatic robots have to be tested and signed off every year (This is practically what we do with spinners during tech check in the arena) or ban ALL systems being pressured whilst not in the arena barring CO2 bottles. Once the robot is in the arena you could then attach your bottle.

The only risk to people is when the robot is around people. Once its in the arena it doesn't matter to us if the ram blows or the rod shoots out. The arena is designed to contain it. If you would be worried about your pneumatic system failing inside the arena then the rules or the arena in question need to be assessed.

If something needs changing I would suggest it be allowing pressure into your robot whilst in the pits area.

Really nice build there Tom! very impressive.

[maddox10]

Re: TXR - FLOW

I think it's not allowed to pressurize the machines in the Pits. Not even for testing/leak-finding.

Pressurizing is part of the link-up procedure, just to make sure if anything goes wrong, it happens in the arena. It's also the reason links, dumps and activation valves should be out of the angle of the weapon.

[Jeroenl]

Re: TXR - FLOW

I find it a very interesting discussion, but maybe it's a good idea to make a new topic of it. And not do it here.

[xtreme]

Re: TXR - FLOW

It would probably be better to just drop the subject, it's never going to go anywhere. Nobody is going to events with tested and certified rams in their robots and they never have. What's the point going any further with the discussion really?

[team_mute]

Re: TXR - FLOW

Nobody is going to events with tested and certified rams in their robots and they never have

Seems a little wrong, Mutes stuff was tested when we used to run our custom stuff and will be again before we go to our 1st event, we've had to fork out for CO2 bottles due to being out of test but by your thinking our old bottles looked just fine so we could have stuck with them.

I dont understand why your so against testing your ram, tap the vent hole, nice connection for a hydro test line

[xtreme]

Re: TXR - FLOW

Seems a little wrong, Mutes stuff was tested when we used to run our custom stuff and will be again before we go to our 1st event, we've had to fork out for CO2 bottles due to being out of test but by your thinking our old bottles looked just fine so we could have stuck with them.

I dont understand why your so against testing your ram, tap the vent hole, nice connection for a hydro test line

If you actually go back and read my earlier post on the last page I said if sombody wants to test it they can, I even said id be happy for it to be tested to 200% or 300% of its working pressure, Its just I personally dont see the point in having the ram tested when the flow rate, Weight of the piston rod slamming against the ram top and fatigue isnt taken into consideration. Also for pressure testing even with the vent hole in the bottom blocked its just going to blow past the piston rod and out of the top vent holes in the ram.
And also I said I agree that buffertanks etc that are storing pressure should be tested and I also said mine will be tested.

I dont want people going out there with unsafe systems, All it would take is one incident where a roboteer or sombody in the audience gets hurt and it could end this hobby that we all love.
But realistically if say at the next event you asked everyone with a pneumatic system to produce a test certificate for each part of their pneumatic system or they couldnt fight, you would end up with a very boring event with absolutely no flippers or pneumatic axe robots running at all. I bet the audience would love seeing a few robots drive into eachother and push eachother into the pit.

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: TXR - FLOW

But realistically if say at the next event you asked everyone with a pneumatic system to produce a test certificate for each part of their pneumatic system or they couldnt fight, you would end up with a very boring event with absolutely no flippers

We ought to do this at the next UK FW champs. Bring on the spinner domination

[xtreme]

Re: TXR - FLOW

We ought to do this at the next UK FW champs. Bring on the spinner domination

Sounds like a plan, ill have to get one of my spinners done. Get mouldy on the job failing eveyones pneumatic systems. But knowing our luck a box would just win.

[davet123]

Re: TXR - FLOW

some you guys need to take up knitting its a tad safer
all the important parts will be tested with paper work ,we not going to waste money having parts tested for nothing. we do not intend to sell them so if any body is going to get injured it would be us testing them and me n tom are more than happy that they are safe at the pressures we running. If any thing was to go wrong with the ram it would be in the arena when fired and nobody would be in there, and as James said the arena is built to contain these mishaps.
As for testing who tests these drinks bottle buffers that are micro mm walled (as tom mentioned) and hold pressure and are fed by trev regs that can sometimes pass fp ???. Our rams mostly run low pressure and are no less than 8mm walled far better than most fp rams and never hold pressure
Please if this is to be continued please start a new thread

[Gasbot]

Re: TXR - FLOW

So just because a ram passes gas it shouldn't be tested - that is quite frankly idiotic. And dont give me that rubbish that these are toys etc because they are not - a macho stance is great until it explodes in your face and wounds the guy standing next to you.

It makes me sad to see that in the seven or so years that we have been away, things haven't changed at all. This is on par with the 10 bar rams that were according to some 'fine on FP'.

all the important parts will be tested with paper work

If you are going this far, why not bolt the system together - plug the ram & vents and get a system test done? I.e. do it properly

If you actually go back and read my earlier post on the last page I said if sombody wants to test it they can

If you built it then it is your responsibility to get it tested - no mine or anyone elses.

8mm wall is nothing special, it might be fine, it might not - it all depends on the relationship between the inner diameter, materal strength, wall thickness and design pressure. Do you have 8mm on at least one side of the tapped holes in the bottom of the ram cylinder or 8mm with the tapped hole? I'm assuming you have checked that your end plates won't buckle from the pressure too? Might be teaching you how to suck eggs but flat plates are very weak when compared to cylinders.

The rules are as clear now, just as they were when we started building these things an age ago. Custom or modified components should be tested. In our first incarnation we had a 95% custom system including the gas bottle, the only off the shelf items were the pipes - it was all tested. We had the tech checkers at RW in a right state as they'd never seen anything like it.

But lets scrap the rules all together - balls to it. Obviously the rule writers were out to spoil our fun and didn't give a damn about our safety! Argue the toss if you like because clearly I don't know what I'm talking about! :x

I hope this does bring in a swathe of pressure test cert checks - because from what you're saying we'll be one of the few pneumatic bots out there who has one :blush:

[craig_colliass]

Re: TXR - FLOW

A new thread under safety

Pneumatic safety issues,

has been started.

[xtreme]

Re: TXR - FLOW

Didnt say they were toys, nobody said scrap the rules, And again I didn't say it shouldn't be tested, I said personally I think its pointless for the reasons iv already stated. And when the ram is fired in a safe environment (the arena) Nothing should be exploding in anyone's face and injuring anyone. I'd be happy to have it tested like I said. Nobody's taking a macho stance iv already said robots should be safe and wouldn't want anyone to get injured. You know what your talking about I know, you have been on the robot wars / combat robot scene longer than I have. The subject should just be dropped, chances are its going to end up going nowhere and be like all other similar subjects that pop up on the forum and end up with constant arguing and go nowhere.