BBC Robat Wars Rules Debate

[Ed Deegan]

In the last episode of BBC Robot Wars Nuts 2 knocked out Carbides spinner chain and won the fight. Then when they fought again later in the show. The carbide team was allowed to modify their robot with a chain guard before the fight.


Surly this is the sort of thing that should be taken in to account when designing the robot? I think its an unfair loop hole. Surly all armor, weapons and inter change wepons should unchangeable once the robot is registered in the competition? Any damaged components can of course be replaced between fights.


What to you guys think?

[Shooty]

Modifying your robot during a competition has become one of the staples of modern robot combat, and disallowing the practice is next to impossible on account of being able to distinguish between a repair and a modification (eg. a side panel gets ripped off, is replaced with a side panel made of a better material to counter their next opponent. Is that a modification or a repair?). I also feel that it adds another layer to the design and ingenuity aspects of many builders, and can give chances to machines that would otherwise struggle helplessly against their opponents. Not to mention the machines that have interchangeable weapons built into their design. Examples of which include Tornado from the classic series, Ghost Raptor in Battlebots S1, Bombshell in S2, Big Nipper, and hell, those are just the prominent ones. I'd estimate that half of the machines you see fighting have interchangeable weapons. Removing them would just be impossible.

[Maxamuslead]

Depends of the what the rules say and the judges say and if the opponent rises a complaint for example Tornado VS Hypno Disc.

In that case Team Hypnodisc said that the interchangeable weapon that Team Tornado was going to use originally was a defensive item not a weapon and the Judges agreed and they had to swap it. Tornado still won but it is a example.

TBH as long at it still falls withing the size and weight set out by the rules it should be fair game, and it could of ended up like Concussion which lost due to it wheel guards.

[Ocracoke]

Looking at the RW ruleset, the rules for interchangeability only refers really to weapons (there is a very vague statement about armour as well in rule 2.6...

2.6 Interchangeable Weapons
If interchangeable weapons are used, the weight is measured with the heaviest set-up in place. Please see rule
12.11 for interchangeable weapon & armour restrictions.

...(aside from the fact that in v3.3, there is no rule 12.11 and would appear to actually refer to 14.3) so I'd allow this provided that with the modification in place, the robot still meets the dimension/weight limits and safety. I suspect it would be an unfair comparison between the original and rebooted rule-sets as they were written at different times.

Now with the above said, the FRA rulset makes a distinction...

2.5 Interchangeable Panels
If interchangeable panels or weapons are used, the weight is measured with the heaviest set-up in place.

Is Carbide's addition of a chain guard classed as interchangable? I wouldn't have thought so, it was welded on and it couldn't have weighed that much either (as so to be over the weight limit).

[Maxamuslead]

Is Carbide's addition of a chain guard classed as interchangable? I wouldn't have thought so, it was welded on and it couldn't have weighed that much either (as so to be over the weight limit).

It is quoted as 110kg but IIRC they have 2 bars one of which is heavier and removable Plastic top Armour to shield against axes. Plus do they weigh each bot before each match or is just a one time thing. Reading from some old team web sites people used to bolt on more armour when fighting hypnodisc and would be overweight if they where weighed but Team Hypnodisc just saw it as a challenge.

[Ocracoke]

It is quoted as 110kg but IIRC they have 2 bars one of which is heavier and removable Plastic top Armour to shield agiesnt axes.

I did wonder about that. Either the addition (in the event that Carbide weighs exactly 110kg) meant they were forced to use the lighter bar or that 110kg figure is rounded up (note that in the rebooted RW series, all weight figures seem to be whole numbers off the top of my head) so perhaps the addition (say ~500g?) meant they were still under the weight limit with the heavier bar.

[Andy1979]

Its no different than robots ive seen with extra armour bolted on

[Ed Deegan]

Good point Mark regarding the wheel guards on Concussion . But I would put bet that most bouts go in favour of the modified robot than the non modified.


Interchangeable weapons to are fine with me as long as they are registered on competition entry and comply with the weight limit. I think the key word is modify. Replacing any broken part with another materials is fine as long as the robot design remains the same as on entry. I suppose modifying the design during the competition is what bugs me. Seems unfair.

[Maxamuslead]

To be honest flails are a uncommon and Nuts 2 got lucky (not taking it away from them loved watching them beat carbide). Really hope Nuts 3 goes "pro" and becomes a really powerful flail spinner as it's huge reach and unpredictable weapon. It was fantastic to watch it reach 3rd/4th place

[RogueTwoRobots]

Nothing wrong with tacking extra bits of armour on from scrap material, so long as the robot remains in weight. Rapid borrowed a sheet of HDPE from us to bolt onto the top of their robot for fighting Terrorhurtz, and Vulture added things that weren't part of the submitted design. All tha matters is whether it's still in weight or not.

[Ed Deegan]

Looks like I'm on my own here. Still seems wrong to me but I do see how the weight limit successfully stops most modifications getting out hand. I'll modify myself into the idea!

[maddox10]

If the machine stays in weight, anything is allowed as long the basics of the machine don't change.
Because, if you go to far the other way, even a welding bead on the armor could be seen as a modification, even if it was a repair of battledamage.

[overkill]

And if mods were not allowed, then Nuts would have been disqualified for having a meltybrain firmware upgrade . I'm with Mario & the others, its all allowed as long as the weight limit is not exceeded.

[shakesc]

true , we did change the firmware but as an extension of that there was lots of VESC tuning which is about the same level of black art as melty brain

Carbide team did what I would of done in their shoes. The bragging rights of Nuts beating the reining champion still gives me a smile.
With RW there is alot of wear on the robots as they compete, you have to do running repairs and think about who you are fighting next

[swanaldo]

yep