Tungsten

[jay]

Tungsten...
Is it allowed in the heavy weight division?

[maddox10]

Yes, Tungsten is an allowed material.

But what is your idea? As a penetrating spike, it's rather useless. For a disk too brittle. Armor, way to heavy and brittle.

[overkill]

Its also very expensive and hard to machine. It's high density makes it handy for compact counterweights in spinning weapons and is used in the RioBotz drum spinners.

[jay]

Its also very expensive and hard to machine. It's high density makes it handy for compact counterweights in spinning weapons and is used in the RioBotz drum spinners.

We mill the corners of box section, insert tungsten pellets in the created groove, then weld over the top creating re-enforced box section..

Its a government approved bar we use on prison windows.

Was thinking of doing something similar on a spinner to give more weight for a greater impact.

[overkill]

Interesting! I don't remember anyone trying welded in tungsten in a bot. In a kinetic weapon of a given weight and diameter, you can maximise the energy by moving as much weight as possible out to the perimeter, so adding tungsten to the rim of a disk would be a compact way to increase energy. On the other hand, milling a slot and welding it over could compromise the tensile strength of the steel, particularly if its something like Hardox.

If you used that technique and made the weapon a bar rather than a disk it will give us several pages worth of cheesy puns, so that's definitely the way to go

[maddox10]

I favor monoblock disks and bars. Less to go wrong.

But if you want to use tungsten weights in a disk or bar, think of those as wheel balancing lead thingies.

Or, if you want to be totaly creative with tungsten pellets, why not think "no bounce hammer"?

[overkill]

Forgot to mention: in the kinetic energy equation, the energy increases at half the rate of mass but with the square of the velocity (RPM). That means if you double the mass with tungsten, you only get a 50% energy increase, but if you use a larger & faster motor to double the RPM, you get four times more energy. High power motors are not cheap, but if you want something as impressively destructive as possible, make the weapon spin faster.

[overkill]

@ Mario: I like the creative thinking with a dead blow hammer but what would be the advantage compared to just a solid steel hammer filled with tungsten for weight?

[maddox10]

No idea on advantage on the dead blow idea. Never tested that with a disk.

[almost_there]

But what is your idea? As a penetrating spike, it's rather useless.

Because it is so brittle?

But on the other hand, the military does use it for kinetic energy penetrator tank shells, as well as armor. For armor it's no good here because of weight limits, but if you include it in weapons, then for the same force, you can achieve higher pressures. You just need to protect it from shattering on impact. KEPs are dual layered for that reason.

[overkill]

That tungsten ammo is only good for one use, while tungsten in a spinning bot weapon will have to last for thousands of impacts. The RioBotz team used tungsten counterweights on their one tooth drums very effectively, so it does a a place in bot building.

[maddox10]

Tungsten penetrating spike.

Material of a penetrating spike on a robot doesn't matter that much. As Nick already wrote, doubling the speed does more than doubling the mass.

A solid mounted spike on a heavy has only 100 kg to concentrate with a speed up to 30kph. Even 15mm HDPE will accept that and avoid any serious damage.

Active spikes, for example a point on a very fast acting pneumatic ram, are even less powerfull.
Then the mass used is only the rod and point, on a big airspring, that isn't that fast either.

The only way I see tungsten as an advantage, is to make a smaller penetrating spike on a decent axe, and then the brittleness as well as cost will be "less than funny".