Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

[team_ireland]

Hello

I was reading the rules and this rule hit me the rule states:
4.4 Advisory only
In addition all middleweight, Heavyweigh and Superheavyweight robots should incorporate a remote Kill on a seperate channel of the TX/RX which should bring the robots failsafe devices to the pre-set off or zero position via a switch on the TX. This is to allow for de-activation of the robots from outside a fully enclosed arena

I am only building a feather so it really does not apply to me but I would like to incorporate it if I have weight. But my problem is how do people do this? It it through very complicated electronics? as if so I will probably not be much good but all help would be greatly Appreciated.

Thank You

Regards
Ian

[jim]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

The wording of this rule is confusing to me as well, Ian. I would imagine that the intention is to have a relay or contactor which carries all the current for the robot, pneumatic valve and fuel valve where appropriate which is operated by a separate radio control channel. You would need a fairly hefty contactor to do this for modern heavyweights.

Its a good idea but I havent seen many people doing it. In fact due to the vague wording Im not sure whether my robot meets this requirement or not.

[julian]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

How about solenoids to pop out the removable link? How sensible would be a CO2 dump be in this circuit as well?

[jim]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

I know some people have implemented a remote CO2 dump which I think is a good idea. The only disadvantages I can see are that it would require me to recharge my gas reservoir after every fight, rather than every 2 fights and it would also take quite a while to vent my reservoir through the regulator, so would increase the time between fights. Safety comes above these concerns, of course.

The standard removable links as supplied by Technobots require a surprising amount of force to disconnect and you would need a big solenoid to pop them out. I would also be worried about such a device activating accidentally while my hand was in the robot removing the link - it could lead to a broken finger.

[team_ireland]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Very true Jim and also I know chaos 2 has one and if you flick the switch off and then back on the robot works again i dont think it would work with the idea of a solenoid removing the removable link.

Regards
Ian

[team_ireland]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Jim just to point out the rule is Advisory only but I still if I had weight would like to do it.

Julian i dont think thats the idea. Its ment to be that the removable link is still in but the robot wont work even if other transmittors are on the same frequency the robot is effectively dead.

Any Help anyone?

Regards
Ian

[storm]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Remote kill is just an additional layer of safety. In Storm II the remote kill shuts down the FET drivers putting the robot in a safer state. It doesnt make the robot safe, just safer.

Im not sure anyone has ever interpreted remote kill as popping out the link ! The point is that you can shut down the robot from a distance, a large solenoid such as the ones that Albright sell would be sutiable for a heavy, and a large automotive relay would be sutiable for a feather.

Jim - you should never have a robot full of CO2 sitting in the pits, you should always vent your gas at the end of a fight. Id be worried if you were not venting your tanks at the end of fights !

Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com

[jim]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Oh dear, have I done something wrong?

Preston was the first time Id run a robot with bottled gas - I attempted to check in my fire extinguisher but was told it wasnt necessary. I fitted it to the robot before the first fight, then opened the valve once it was inside the arena with the doors closed. After the fight I closed the extinguisher valve and vented the low pressure side of the circuit, so the only pressure left was that present in the extinguisher.

I had been led to believe this was standard practice, if not then I am truly sorry and I may well stop using pneumatics. In my defence this was done under the full supervision of the pit crew at Preston.

[julian]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Id assumed from reading up that the machine had to be fully emptied of gas after every fight. However with the cylinder valve closed and the pipework vented, it is after all now just a CO2 fire extinguisher. We all walk past those every day and it would be considered dangerous if they were removed.

If I do go for a very conventional flipper then I dont think that the need for a remote kill is quite so important than it is for other types. If memory serves me, Typhoon has a remote kill (or at very least a switch marked kill which we should hope means that)

[m2xt]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

M2 has always had remote kill and simply uses a pair of cheap (£15) 180A relays feeding the speedo channels. I would not be without it and has saved a potentially serious incident from happening in the early days of roboting. A remote kill that relies on the FETs only is an additional safety layer and is fine for most circumstances. I personally requested that a remote kill should be mandatory on heavies.

Jim, Apart from RWs M2 has always sat on the bench with a charged CO2 bottle. I do not as a rule dump all of the CO2 at the end of a fight, all that has been required is to isolate the CO2 bottle and vent the system. This is to avoid wasting gas (each refil costs the event money). It is best to recharge the bottle immediately after a fight whilst its cold (we do not have pumped filling rigs at the majority of events). Until events have a CO2 cage to store bottles in, the best place for them is in the bot rather than on benches etc. With the CO2 dump valve open (mandatory when on the bench) and safety links / chains restraining any pneumatic weapon then I would suspect a risk assessment would be satisfactory.

Paul

[typhoon_driver]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Julian we have a remote kill for the petrol engine in Typhoon 2. This was used twice in series 7 when we hit the arena sidewall. The only other kill switch is the failsafe which when Tx contact is lost the robot stops dead. I guess you could in a way call it a remote kill switch.

[bugs]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Weve recently had a similar discussion in the Netherlands. The problem is that FETs can stay in a conductive state if they let out the magic smoke, and relays may stick. Allbrights are the best option, but they are not cheap and carry some weight. This has put a lot of people off.
Im all for a remote relay option. I even suggested to put an infra-red sensor on it so you can shut it down from a distance if the receiver fails somehow. The problem is it will make the sport even more expencive and it reduces relyability a bit because it is yet another component that may fail.

[storm]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Apologies Pneumatic people - my mistake.

Ill stick to talking about things I know about !

Ed
http://www.teamstorm.comhttp://www.teamstorm.com

[fwsorg]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Eds solution is quite a nice one- disabling the drivers is effectivelly having a fail-safe on a switch. Is this the sort of thing the rule is after, or is it more of a kill switch in the strongest sense of the word- i.e. removing power to the bot?

[team_ireland]

Rule 4.4 Remote Kill (Advisory Only)

Paul Cooper said:
M2 has always had remote kill and simply uses a pair of cheap (£15) 180A relays feeding the speedo channels.

How do you turn these relays on or off paul. I know its via a switch on the TX but what does this switch activate?

All help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Ian