safety issues

[rob]

From the rules page.

Please note that from January 1st 2010, 40MHz will no longer be permitted for use in feather weight and above. The only permissible radio frequencies will be 459MHz and 2.4GHz for these classes.

i have had issues with BR6000 and the dx6 binding and the robot not going to failsafe on my featherweights.
What would be the best setup for hellbent as i dont feel confident with the setup i have for the FW.
ROB....

[joey_picus]

Re: safety issues

...has that been announced anywhere? This is the first I'd heard about 40mhz being banned

[razerdave]

Re: safety issues

I can understand the possible reasons behind this (Safety, 40MHz being drowned out), but it is a bit cheeky putting that in the rules without any announcement from the FRA or, AFAIK, any voting on it.

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: safety issues

WTF? First I'd heard about it too. Think its a bit unnecessary personally, 40MHz has been used for years and while it isn't interference free, its clear that with the use of failsafes and the usual handling measures (TX control) they are perfectly fine for featherweights at least. Oh well, three good units going to gather dust after Christmas

[m2xt]

Re: safety issues

This is simply beyond belief, 40MHz has done us fine for all of these years and just because a new technology is now available doesn't mean that we have to bin perfectly good radio gear. I have four 40 meg sets and had no reason to buy another at 2.4GHz.

[craig_colliass]

Re: safety issues

Perhaps after someone from the FRA has commented on the history and logic of this decision we will be more able to consider the pros and cons.

[grant_ploughbot]

Re: safety issues

Might be worth checking the minutes from the last event to see why they banned it. But thats 100% false in my eyes.....

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: safety issues

From the minutes of the 20th FRA General Meeting:

Phase out of 40Mhz - A number of safety issue with 40Mhz were raised, due to the increasing number of robots in certain melee fights due to the use of 2.4Ghz controllers there have been a number of issues where robots on 40Mhz have been out of control/ uncontrollable due their signal being drowned out by the large number of higher frequency controllers. Proposal was put forward that as from Jan 2010 all featherweight or larger robots should use either 459Mhz or 2.4Ghz
Decision - Agreed (Unanimous)

Was it mentioned before the meeting at all that this issue would be up for consideration? Don't recall seeing it anywhere, as I would've stated my disapproval of such a move had it been up for discussion on the forum. Would it not be better to have it come down to the discretion of the EO as to whether they would allow people to operate on 40MHz, as its their own arena marshall that's responsible for the arming/disarming of potential out-of-control robots? (a risk that should be reduced if the robot is fitted with a working failsafe - which would be, let me think, every robot!)

I guess it could be viewed in a similar light to the current discussions regarding the power tool drag racing; I paid £120 for my Skysport 6 when I bought it new and it still works perfectly fine. I could do without having to fork out a further £60 (minimum) for a DX5 and RX (£120 if I want to run two robots) and I'm sure new builders who are operating on 40MHz could do without that added cost too. Yes I have decided that I will go to the effort of building a drag-racer to enter the Robo Challenge event, but that's a one-off entry requirement. This rule would affect every event from 2010 onwards.

[leorcc]

Re: safety issues

I have conferred with the DRG and GRA, and we will not follow suit on this. 40 MHz will still be allowed in 2010 at our events.

[blazerbotics]

Re: safety issues

First of all as i understand it has only been proposed and will be discussed further at the next meeting, im sure it will be announced before then to allow members to make their points.

From an EO and arena marshall point of view: This is something that we have looked at over the last few events. It is getting nearly impossible to run feathers in large fights (burgess hill we had 20 fighting at once) on 40Mhz, as it seems to just get drowned out. No matter what failsafes are fitted, it stray signals get through and can cause misfires and unctrolled movement. Its only a matter of time before we start to see these problems in the heavyweights.

Most robots are running 2.4Ghz now with only a few still on 40Mhz. 2.4Ghz setups can be bought for £70 upwards, you struggle to get a decent 40Mhz set for that, especially if you're looking at PCM.

FM radios have been banned in the USA due to similar reasons.

[grant_ploughbot]

Re: safety issues

Why dont you just limit the number of robots in the arena then?
We have never had any problems with this, and also had 20 feathers in the arena at once (and thats a much smaller space).
2.4ghz systems simply do not interfere with 40mhz, and if there is any way possible for that i would love to know how!
What i can understand is if most robots are now not taking precautions such as suppression on motors etc causng extra noise in the arena's which could cause some problems, but that will be a simple fix by the EO limiting the number of robots in the arena. If all robots are stopped they wouldnt get any problems then anyway (such as arming up/disarming).
Also, is there any evidence to say that these feathers on 40mhz dont just have other problems?

[razerdave]

Re: safety issues

2.4ghz systems simply do not interfere with 40mhz, and if there is any way possible for that i would love to know how!

I have seen at least 2 incidences of 40MHz robots in an arena full of spektrums and the robot has been uncontrolable or firing a weapon at random moments. And its not been 1 Isolated incident either, with 1 of those two robots I've seen it happen 3 times, twice at RR and once and RL.

I don't quite understand how the interferance is happening either, but there is evidence to prove it. For first hand testimony, talk to either Mike H-Macey or The Barbaric Response team.

[m2xt]

Re: safety issues

The rules state (4.1.2) that radio systems must not cause interference to other frequency user so if 2.4 gig is interfering with 40 meg then they are in breach of the rules! Does ofcom know that 2.4 gig interfers with the 40 meg band? Does the FRA know for sure that the cause is due to 2.4 gig and not from poorly suppressed motors?

[m2xt]

Re: safety issues

Just another though, has any EO tested the 40MHz band with a scanner whilst all of the 2.4 gig sets are running?

[grant_ploughbot]

Re: safety issues

I have seen at least 2 incidences of 40MHz robots in an arena full of spektrums and the robot has been uncontrolable or firing a weapon at random moments. And its not been 1 Isolated incident either, with 1 of those two robots I've seen it happen 3 times, twice at RR and once and RL.

Before 2.4ghz did you ever go to an event and not see the same? only alot more of it....


Dave, If 1 robot has had it happen 3 times, and others dont seem to have the problem its more than likely that robots problem. There is no evidence 2.4ghz is messing things up - only evidence against.
Pauls suggestion is probably the best, get a frequency checker and see if anything shows up, but your probably wasting your money!
Before 2.4ghz systems became so popluar, you would never get so many feathers in the arena at once, mainly due to frequency clashes, and also the featherweight catagory was not as popular as it is today. Its FAR more likley to be a suppresion problem in the arena. I know i took all supression off my astros as its less to go wrong.....

I could be wrong, but i doubt it