E-petition

[typhoon_driver]

This one was brought to my attention earlier today,

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.g ... tions/6271

An e-petition to make the term engineer a protected term like doctor. Important to me as I just graduated from university as an engineer and am starting out on my career. Takes only a minute to sign.

Please pass it on to anyone that would be equally interested.

[Mouldy]

Re: E-petition

Why would i want to sign that?;

Make 'Engineer' a protected title
Responsible department: Department for Business, Innovation and Skills

Engineering suffers from an image problem. People believe that engineers simply fix things, but we don't: we invent things. Unfortunately the false image is propagated by hundreds of companies out there who term repair-persons and equipment installers 'Engineers'. Engineering suffers from a lack of graduates, and at a time people are looking to manufacturing to fix the economy we need all the graduates we can get. Sadly they are put off by the false image of engineering. It is thus proposed that the title 'Engineer' is protected legally, like 'Doctor' or 'Architect'. It would be restricted to those who are professional engineers or product designers, or those who have retired from the industry.



So, at work im classed as an engineer.... if that became something that was recognised only for people who have degrees in engineering (i know alot of graduate engineers who would give you a blank look if you said pass me an M5 nut in a workshop)

Id class myself a better engineer than alot of graduates... who if this passed would get a proper title as such? and id get the title someone who fixes things No. B**ls to that.

...having said that. id rather be someone who fixes things with a really good income working for a big international firm. then a proffessional engineer who works in tesco

[typhoon_driver]

Re: E-petition

You don't have to have a degree to be classed as a professional engineer. Many charted engineering routes don't require those with experience in the field to have a degree. They have to show the appropriate experience though.

[Mouldy]

Re: E-petition

That paragraph seems to say otherwise. Whats a professional engineer then?

[typhoon_driver]

Re: E-petition

A professional engineer in my book would be someone with a chartership. An internationally recognised qualification. Something which I don't have atm. I'm perfectly happy to admit that I'm an engineer in training.

Granted the boundaries would be debated in parliament and by appropriate bodies but this e-petition if it went through would hopefully at least lead to a discussion on whether having virgin send someone to fit a box to your tv is actually an engineer.

I believe that Germany has a system where the term engineer is protected. I'd be interested if anyone had knowledge on their system.

[Anttazz]

Re: E-petition

I reckon that in Germany you can take the title of engineer if you're suitably qualified, where here Mr/Miss/Mrs would become Dr if you have an MD, if you are qualified then Mr/Miss/Mrs can become Engineer.

Could be wrong on that but I think I heard it somewhere.

[cliveb]

Re: E-petition

Whilst I am waiting for the Domestic Engineer to get back from the school run with Alex. :wink:

[Mouldy]

Re: E-petition

If parlment did decide it would be graduate engineers, which i dissagree with...the whole point in the article is to get people to do degree's...so the government get money... and you get a title... no thanks.

[typhoon_driver]

Re: E-petition

each to their own

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: E-petition

I think robots can be a good object to illustrate things. Dave, you may not have a degree in engineering while I do. But anyone can easily see that your robots are the better engineered machines, and that not just down to you having access to a greater range of tools.

I'm going to be honest and say that, although I've signed the petition, I'm not 100% sure where I stand on the issue. I've signed the petition for the benefit of the 'proper' engineers out there and, while I could possibly argue that I could be called an engineer, I never really think of myself as a proper engineer.

However, I think moves for 'engineer' to be made a protected title have been accelerated by general over-use of the term. While I don't think it's right to exclude someone from being called an engineer just because they don't have a degree in the subject, notices saying 'an engineer has been called to fix the water dispenser/photocopier/printer' are prime examples of incorrect use. A more appropriate term (and the one for 'someone who fixes stuff') would be technician.

But at the end of the day, I'm not that fussed how the term is used. It doesn't affect what I do in my job or in my life; there are other things in the world that are more deserving of these levels of attention. God, I'm sounding horribly philosophical as I get older :shock:

[widow_twanky]

Re: E-petition

I thought i'd have a really strong opinion on this but i don't.

There are many different types of engineers civil, structural, electrical, mechanical through to the more practical machine shop type of engineer. Reality is any engineer doesn't necessarily have to know what they're doing they just have to be able to work it out and make sure it'll work. That's what engineers should be able to do. I have never used a cnc machine but i am sure that i could work it out if i had the time or inclination. I had never designed a fire supression system until i did some research and worked out how to do it. Dave is spot on when he refers to graduates. Not all of them but most of them. Degrees should teach you some basic science and problem solving skills. As most of them are taught courses they don't tend to do that unless someone really has a gift or enthusiasm to learn it.

I do think that the washing machine engineer who turns up after two hours training and tells you 'the circuit boards blown' without knowing anything about how it works or having less idea than me about how to fix it devalues what engineers are but i don't think you can easily assess the practical problem solving skills you need to be an engineer with academic achievements alone so i wont be signing any petition.

Fact is you get employed for what you can do, not what you're called.

[Mouldy]

Re: E-petition

I havent got an issue with graduates being given the title.. so long as they have experiance also after a few years etc... why should someone whos done a degree in engineerig but never used it be classed as a professional engineer? and someone whos being doing it for 30 years in the real world, machining parts he designed, repairing equipment by re-wiring it, designing hydraulic/pneumatic systems for things.. programming etc not be good enough for the title?

Most graduate engineers end up as paper pushers anyhow who never open a tool box.. IMO that kind of engineer wouldnt deserve it.

[typhoon_driver]

Re: E-petition

Paper pushers eh? Lol doubt I'll be opening many if any toolboxes offshore but there's very good reason for that (especially when a fair few of the tools used weigh more than most combat bots). But then I wouldn't consider a good few of the guys that do use them engineers. Speaking to some roughnecks, most had no idea what the actual purpose of their task was, they were just following instructions.

No problem with people that design and implement practical solutions being called engineers. I have a problem with a mechanic being called an automotive engineer.

Good to get some debate going

[Mouldy]

Re: E-petition

so... whos the more important engineer? The guy with the degree who sais i need this... to do that... or the guy who goes into his workshop with a head full of experience...comes up with a solution, makes it..and impliments it?

[craig_colliass]

Re: E-petition

I think this is an interesting question perhaps we could look to great engineers of the past
See what percentage were degree educated, and how many weren't
E.G. Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Or William Richard Morris?