Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

[typhoon_driver]

Lets get some topical discussions on the go. Is Wikileaks right to release the information it has done and what do you think of the recent arrest and charges made against Julian Assange in Sweden?

[RogueTwoRobots]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

I had no idea such a thing had happened since our news these days is wholly dominated by the much more pressing issue of our country being unable to cope with something called snowfall *end sarcasm*
A phenomenon that is regularly associated with this season/time of year and one that we have quite regularly endured in years gone by yet one which we seem entirely unable to deal with every time it rolls around! *end rant*

Okay, topical discussion. Err...ummm...
Alright Gary, how's it going?

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

Lol well I can see this thread dying a quick death. I don't even know why I bother sometimes.....trying to bring some meaningful discussions in here.......might as well start another randomness thread.......*grumbles incoherently*

[craig_colliass]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

Sorry Gary been busy

I think the idea of Wikileaks is on the whole a good idea, it is about time the general public found out the twisted world that our governments inhabit. there is a lot of bad things happening and about to happen, so hold on to your hats guys it is going to get very bumpy!!!

[leorcc]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

I think exposing security flaws is good, but I'm not too happy with the possibility of lives at risk by Wikileaks' behaviour.

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

The main problem I have with the wikileaks causes deaths argument is that there is no way to quantify it. It's a wishy washy argument that loses all credibility in my eyes when you consider how many deaths have been caused by the lies involving weapons of mass destruction etc.

[widow_twanky]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

I think I see Wikileaks in very much the same way as i do greenpeace. I quite like Greenpeaces objectives, i just disagree with a lot of the direct action which in the main is unlawful so i find it very difficult to give them any financial support.

Wikileaks has obviously published some sensetive documents which to be honest i am quite ambivelant about what i have heard so far. It's a bit embarassing in general but not earth shattering stuff. A revelation that Prince Andrew is a bit of a loud mouth stuck up pratt or that the yanks don't like us was not really the biggest shock I have had recently.................in fact i was a bit more shocked last time my toaster popped up

BUT I do think that the mentality of yesterdays attacks on mastercard and paypal etc by hackers seeking revenge for the withdrawal of services is not something i can really condone. It's just stinks of an organisation that will persue its objectives in anyway possible and is prepared to use its technical expertise to cause serious disruption to anyone and everyone to persue its aims.

I also think that people should be held to account for their actions and answer whatever charge is made against them. There is an alegation of rape against the man in charge. It was raised before these things were published and may or may not be justified. I think that trying to portray that this charge has simply been made because of the leaks is at best disenginious. Are we really to believe that justice in Sweden (not a third world country with the death sentence) is so bad that it can be manipulated in the full glare of the worlds media? Such a plot would have been ambitious even for Bush who would have been stupid enough to condone it.

Andy

(Swaps thinking head for beer drinking head)

[craig_colliass]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

Quote

It's just stinks of an organisation that will persue its objectives in anyway possible and is prepared to use its technical expertise to cause serious disruption to anyone and everyone to persue its aims.

I'm sorry,
I thought for a moment you were talking about the American Secret Service

[widow_twanky]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

I thought for a moment you were talking about the American Secret Service

I'll save that rant for another time but yes, them too!!

(They could also be the third world country with the death sentence I was referring to )

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

The attacks on various websites, as far as I've been able to gather, haven't come from the wikileaks organisation but rather from another organisation called anonymous which are sympathetic to the wikileaks cause. Although trying to get concrete info rather than opinion can be quite tricky in these situations

[anukhet]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

The arrest of Julien Assange on the charges cited are suspect because they are exactly the same charges that surface from time to time (mostly against soccer players) - all seem to involve 2 women - charges easy to cause shock or concern but incredibly hard to prove especially since these particular allegations date back to August and had already been dismissed by the Swedish court.

As for the leaks themselves......from what is nothing more than what could be called 'tittle-tattle' it has exposed the paranoia of the government of the USA. They have exerted thier influence over the likes of Paypal into witholding donations to Wikileaks and have likely had the same influence over Mastercard and Visa to do same.

Wikileaks have done the world a service - the air badly needed clearing of the dark and dirty world inhabited by the diplomatic services.

....that's my 2p worth

[leorcc]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

The main problem I have with the wikileaks causes deaths argument is that there is no way to quantify it.

The argument is not that it causes deaths, but it can put lives at risk because there is no unaccountability for the material being published. Once it is out there it is impossible to retract. Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean the argument is invalid. One should always err on the side of caution in cases like these.

It's a wishy washy argument that loses all credibility in my eyes when you consider how many deaths have been caused by the lies involving weapons of mass destruction etc.

That really is a non sequitur, one is not related to another. Had the WMD portrayal been real the wikileaks documents would still have been published anyway and the threat of putting lives at risk would still be the same.

[craig_colliass]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

On the Iraq WMD thing there is documented proof that they had and used against the Curds and Iranian forces in the
past Gas (a WMD)to kill people including women and children. were the WMD argument went wrong is, the Iraqi
WMDs were smuggled across the boarder in civilian aid aircraft to Syria 4 months before the invasion, and all paperwork
of there existence was destroyed!
The flaw in the western governments argument on this point was the probable deployment of WMD in a very short time,
20 minutes I think, in rockets to Israel who have a lot of WMDs, who would retaliate and BOOOM!!!!.
This of course was to justify the action of occupation in Iraq by the American forces, this of course had nothing
to do with oil!!!
Tens of thousands of dead Iraqis later and we have a LASTING AND JUST PEACE
When we have information about the obvious lies from all governments Wikileaks dose the world on the whole a
service to us all,

it is just a shame we need such a service.

[MattPPA13]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

wiki leaks is obviously an evil corperation, the HQ is based on the moonraker base off james bond.

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Wikileaks - transparency or secrecy?

Had the WMD portrayal been real the wikileaks documents would still have been published anyway and the threat of putting lives at risk would still be the same.

True but surely going to war in the first place over what was essentially a lie (or overhyped report) put a hell of a lot of lives in danger and if anything has meant that civil liberties mean sod all. When was the last time you went through airport security and weren't made to feel like a criminal incase you had a bottle of water in your pocket?

It would appear that everyone, governments included, could do with someone taking an occasional look over their shoulder to make sure everything is above board.