Talk to the FRA

[Thunder arrow]

Re: Talk to the FRA

hiya,


I had a long... and i mean very long discussion ( argument ) with derek foxwell about this subject. But in the end, actually agreed with him in the end!!

WAT this makes know sense (but I know what u mean ) (the: I agree with him bit)

[widow_twanky]

Re: Talk to the FRA

You've got to look at what a step is before you can define what a walker is.

In a step the foot is placed on the floor, lifted and then moved in a linear motion and then placed on the floor again.

Trying to define this in terms of wether it used hydraulics or pneumatics is wrong, it's the movement which counts. Craigs walky thing is very definitely a wallker and powered by an electric motor.

The rules do need to be deliberately vague to stop inventive people being penalised but good enough to make sure that the movement is incorporated into the design.

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Talk to the FRA

true but that's not a combat robot. Currently there aren't any active walkers so defining the rules will affect no machines in operation and only those made in the future. An extra 50 % for a shuffle bot is still a good 6.3kg. Not a weight to be sniffed at. I'm pretty sure you could make the walking mechanism using cams for only a couple kilo giving you a great deal more weight for the rest of the machine.

Plus there has to be an easy distinction to be made. Purely to keep everything civil and easy to determine at an event.

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Talk to the FRA

lol just realised my maths was off there but you get the point

[craig_colliass]

Re: Talk to the FRA

Just a few comments on a previous entry.

An extra 50 % for a shuffle bot is still a good 6.3kg. Not a weight to be sniffed at.

I may be wrong but I don't think there is any weight advantage for shuffle bots now. :shock:

I'm pretty sure you could make the walking mechanism using cams for only a couple kilo.

A reliable combat walker, I don't want to appear rude, but after making Pilgrim I would like to see that.


Walking.......What are the feet doing? I have said before the mechanism dose not really matter too much,
if you track the foot what shape is the trace, round or oval dose it have some flat portions etc.

we can have arguments about what is a true walker for ever.

I say vote

have examples of machines from U-Tube from feet stuck on the drive wheels (not a walker in my opinion) to Big Dog (A walker in anyone's book) The majority decision wins the day.

How many walkers are out there?
How many walkers are fighting out there?
How many walkers have ever won a combat competition?
How many moving parts in Pilgrim's leg mechanism?........................................ .................................................. Over 500!!!
Lets not kill the idea before anyone has tried to make something,

Everyone was worried about spinners, but in the UK champs it was the box type robot that won.

Lets keep the rules open as much as possible if walkers start winning everything (like flippers in the HW section) then lets think again.

[woody]

Re: Talk to the FRA

http://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/LegMech.gif

[typhoon_driver]

Re: Talk to the FRA

I may be wrong but I don't think there is any weight advantage for shuffle bots now.

Yup Craig you're right.

A reliable combat walker, I don't want to appear rude, but after making Pilgrim I would like to see that.

This is the main problem though. If I turn up at an event with a machine that is in essence a cam with a leg attached (skuttle from technogames) am I going to get any weight advantage? I think most people would argue no but then where do we draw the line? Just to clarify I was meaning a very basic cam system for a few kilo. Anything with the complexity of the pilgrim would require a great deal more weight

[james...venom]

Re: Talk to the FRA

Its very tricky to draw the line. Alan that walking cam mechanism looks good to me for being a walker. I know its good to have open rules however as you already know it requires a great deal of investment to produce a machine just to have it banned for its second event. I imagine Jonno was fuming and rightly so after putting in so much work.

[woody]

Re: Talk to the FRA

I believe the foot / leg action meets the Walker criterion ...I would however get a ruling from the governing body before embarking on an an expensive build.

[craig_colliass]

Re: Talk to the FRA

A walker is

1/ a machine that is supported by it's own legs and only it's legs 100% of the time including stopping and turning.

2/ The foot must move in a pattern that simulates a walking gate, (like a bird, horse, insect, spider or human etc) what is not allowed is a foot or leg that rotates around.

3/ shuffle type mechanisms are feet, pads, blocks or plates with no legs, run on a cam or crank systems, sometimes the feet do not leave the ground they do not replicate in any way, any natural animal type walking gate.

So in closing lets say a walker must have a pronounced obvious walking gate.
(this means the foot is placed on the ground the robot is propelled forward by the legs action,
the foot lifts of the ground is moved forward through the air and placed back on the ground completing the cycle.

Jonno have you any pictures of the walking mechanism that you had that was banned, I would like to see if my
definition would let this robot back in to play, or exclude it.

I think that it should be that if the input to the system turns continuously it's a shuffler regardless of what mechanism you use to walk.

If we use your criteria no rotational motive force at all, then I can't think of one UK robot that was a walker!

[james...venom]

Re: Talk to the FRA

Craig does that mean the giant walking robot you brought to the uk champs is not a walker as that has an input to the system that turns continuously

I also would allow the walking mechanism that alan has drawn.

[craig_colliass]

Re: Talk to the FRA

I think I misunderstand Jonno's statement/quote, so I will wait for his input, but it dose sound like that at first glance.

I have been thinking of how to use only linear actuators to make a walker, the cost, complexity and fragility of such a machine in the arena would make it a none starter.



The machine above looks great but did it ever fight? could it ever win?



This is another one that never won much but it did look good

[Scorpionbuilder]

Re: Talk to the FRA

Hi All

Your input is fantastic, some of it getting very technical but at the end of the day what we are looking for is a simple definition of what is a walker. I am starting to think, but always open to suggestions, that if the foot makes a circular motion it is a shufflebot but if it makes an elliptical movement it should be a walker no matter what mechanism runs it.

We do have to come up with something that defines what a walker is without stiffling creativity and making easy for tech-checkers and the EO's to determine whether it is a walker or a shufflebot.

Keep it coming it's been a very interesting discussion so far.


John

[beast]

Re: Talk to the FRA

to me a walker is something that has legs or so NOT WHEELS

thats it

[james...venom]

Re: Talk to the FRA

In the new ruling will there be a weight allowance for shuffle bots john?