The future of roboting

[xtreme]

Re: The future of roboting

Maxus and Voodoo are kinda heavy but you can carry them with 1 arm. A toolbox in the other hand with your transmitter and charger in the toolbox. Sorted.
my middles are a bit dusty atm and voodoo needs a new axe motor gearbox. But then there ready to fight

[robotwars]

Re: The future of roboting

On the subject of middle weights....

Nobody has gievn me personally a reason as to why build one?


Are they cheaper?
Will they use different components to heavyweights?
Can you take them on a train like is being suggested...? i wouldnt want to with spares and tools.
Will they look completely different to a hW or just slightly smaller?
What weapons will people come up with, or will it be yet another flipper fest?

Remember if you make them with cheaper wheel chair motors, they will be slow and boring.
The entertainment factor of the HWs is the speed, power, and size from an EO point of view.

All I can see is another lower class of the HW's, so why not just concentrate on one class, and make more HW's instead.
Theres nothing to stop MWs in Heavyweight fights ( within reason )... steel sandwich is a prime example.

If i was going to build a MW, id put exactly the same bits out of my hw, and fit it into a MW, just loose my hardox armour. And i'm sure most would do the same !

If im missing something, please tell me. Im open to suggestions.

John

[Marien]

Re: The future of roboting

They are easier to handle (lift) for 1 or 2 person-teams. Some Roboteers sell their HW due to bad backs.
On all other points, I agree with Jonno.
I do think that it is not hard to build an underweight HW, these days. With lighter batteries and a tendency to build denser robots.

If you want more spectators, build more spectacular robots; faster (minimum speed?), with active weapons and sacrificial armour. Minimum ground clearance for the bodywork eliminates being stuck on the arena floor. Minimum ground clearance for the flippers will give others a bit more chance.
Good-looking robots are great, but noisy robots pull in people from the other side of the hall.

[dgr]

Re: The future of roboting

I don't really agree with that stuff about sacrifical armour/robots or minimum ground clearances ect. We have to remember that this is also a competition for us and I don't think any of us want to have to comprimise our robots just to bring the crowd in. If we're having a couple of fights a show where we have a heavy fighting a sacrificial one, or a showcase fight, this would be one slot gone where the actual heavys can't do any fighting. Each heavy gets about 2 or 3 fights a show if they're lucky. We have to balance between roboteers and audience, and saying people have to build more exciting robots or they cant enter would effect some of us more than others.

[craig_colliass]

Re: The future of roboting

There is a lot on the thread since last I looked

To answer some questions asked

MW robots are going to be cheaper to make, and posibly transport this means there may be more people going over to this class from the featherweight side.
A speedo like the Sidewinder would do well in this class. Wheelchair drives come more into play they can go at 8mph plus fit bigger wheels they go faster than that.
The size of a middleweight relative to a heavyweight is about 75-80%.
To restrict flippers winning everything, easy restrict the amount of gas they can carry, big cannon flipper can only have a few shots, little ram can have more shots but no OOTA.
I do like the idea of a minimum height and robots not dragging flipper bits along the ground ripping up Jonno€™s new floor, not that it effects The Saint!!
I personally would not recommend transporting a 50Kg robot on a train, but I have done madder things than that in the past!!!

And lastly I don€™t think middleweight robots will be anymore boaring than any other class.

[ady]

Re: The future of roboting

mw's wont be any more boring than hw's and will they be anymore exciting?????? i doubt it for a while, hw's are great but all i ever seem to see on youtube is flippers (yawn). (flippers are great but their are too many)
i think you would end up with more mw's than hw's, which could lead to sum great robots being built and possibley evolve like the fw's, the main reason most would probably build one is they are easier to transport. When i took my hw to one event i had to take it through a door sideways!! its scratched the crap out of my car, and wasnt vary easy to secure in the car,
it was a nightmare..
Even though their is no easy answer, i think the biggest problem is its not full combat which is also not do-able with mw's but at least their would be more robots.
People might moan about spinners detroying their robots or causing too much damage, but im sure with all your hardox you would be fine, and yes i know the cost of a full conbat hw arena isnt doable, im just saying what i think the problem is, before anyone starts kicking off.
Hw's are what people will always want to see because of their size, but to me its like boxing

what would you rather watch danny williams,audley harrison cuddling then throwing one big punch and its all over.
.

or would you rather watch amir khan, ricky hatton?

totally agree a revamp of the rules is needed on robots, lifting a hw robot into the arena for it to get flipped out after 20 seconds would annoy the crap out of me, and also it would if i was a audiance member waiting for the robots to be brought in, armed, etc.... then to see it just get thrown out...

i also think a mw is an easier step up from fw's.

[cliveb]

Re: The future of roboting

totally agree a revamp of the rules is needed on robots, lifting a hw robot into the arena for it to get flipped out after 20 seconds would annoy the crap out of me, and also it would if i was a audiance member waiting for the robots to be brought in, armed, etc.... then to see it just get thrown out...

.

I think that Jonno's cages have addressed this problem.

[robotwars]

Re: The future of roboting

Yep, still going on !!!

MW robots are going to be cheaper to make, and posibly transport this means there may be more people going over to this class from the featherweight side.

Why ? What parts will people use for a MW?
They will be the same to transport, 1 car, 1 set of tools and spares, 1 tank of fuel, and 1 set of passengers. Maybe you have a bit of room in your boot for a lunch box and some crisps


A speedo like the Sidewinder would do well in this class. Wheelchair drives come more into play they can go at 8mph plus fit bigger wheels they go faster than that.

Yes you can use wheelchair motors, but after a few fights of fighting a robot with 750's your going to want to upgrade, plus i would hazzard a guess that any current hw team building a MW wouldnt consider using wheelchair motors, and id never advise anyone. Its a false economy,

The size of a middleweight relative to a heavyweight is about 75-80%.

Ok so they look very similar to HW's, so your not creating anything visually different to the 40 active HWs.


To restrict flippers winning everything, easy restrict the amount of gas they can carry, big cannon flipper can only have a few shots, little ram can have more shots but no OOTA.
I do like the idea of a minimum height and robots not dragging flipper bits along the ground ripping up Jonno€™s new floor, not that it effects The Saint!!

Talked about minimum ground clearance beofre, i like the idea like in F1 and am still contemplating it for 2010.

I personally would not recommend transporting a 50Kg robot on a train, but I have done madder things than that in the past!!!

And lastly I don€™t think middleweight robots will be anymore boaring than any other class.

They will be very similar to Hw's, some might not even know the difference, so again, why bother?



Top

ady Post subject: Re: The future of robotingPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:57 pm


Name: adrian sandercock mw's wont be any more boring than hw's and will they be anymore exciting?????? i doubt it for a while, hw's are great but all i ever seem to see on youtube is flippers (yawn). (flippers are great but their are too many)
i think you would end up with more mw's than hw's, which could lead to sum great robots being built and possibley evolve like the fw's, the main reason most would probably build one is they are easier to transport.

I dont think apart form the spinners, there is any more technology in FWs than heavyweights. If everyone was to build a MW, we'd end up with the same set of robots but slightly smaller, and maybe a lack of hardox, nothing new.

When i took my hw to one event i had to take it through a door sideways!! its scratched the crap out of my car, and wasnt vary easy to secure in the car,
it was a nightmare..

MOST venues have big open doors, we get an arena through them, with careful planning and rubber and carpet you can get robots in and out without scrathching. Depends on the size of your car of course.
AK gets kan openener in his sparkly posh BMW without scratching it.



Even though their is no easy answer, i think the biggest problem is its not full combat which is also not do-able with mw's but at least their would be more robots.
People might moan about spinners detroying their robots or causing too much damage, but im sure with all your hardox you would be fine, and yes i know the cost of a full conbat hw arena isnt doable, im just saying what i think the problem is, before anyone starts kicking off.
Hw's are what people will always want to see because of their size, but to me its like boxing

what would you rather watch danny williams,audley harrison cuddling then throwing one big punch and its all over.
.

or would you rather watch amir khan, ricky hatton?

totally agree a revamp of the rules is needed on robots, lifting a hw robot into the arena for it to get flipped out after 20 seconds would annoy the crap out of me, and also it would if i was a audiance member waiting for the robots to be brought in, armed, etc.... then to see it just get thrown out...

Obviously your not a HW fan ady, but if you came to an RR HW event, out of 3 shows, we will now only have about 1 or 2 OOTAs, the cages have stoped that and we have some very exciting fights which do last the whole 3 minutes or their is a knock out.

My Thoughts

John

[ady]

Re: The future of roboting

I think that Jonno's cages have addressed this problem.

sorry didnt realise this as i dont go to rr hw events. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and i can take critisim, The only thing i find a bit annoying is anyone who tries to make a suggestion gets a bit talked down too. or that's how it comes across?? as if im thick because i scratched the crap out of my car with my hw and the next man didnt ....

people will build mw robots with wheelchair motors, we cant all afford flash custom gearboxes etc..... people make fw's out of drills, when their are gold motors etc.....we all dont want to just buy/afford all the best stuff so it aint false economy!!

im just trying to get my ideas and suggestions across, this is probably why so many dont add any comments to this thread, other eo's etc...... theirs nothing wrong with people disagreeing with your comments, thats fine, i just think sometimes it comes across a bit sarcastic and if were thick or have crap ideas, in the way responses have been made to suggestions.

all i can say is their is definately something wrong as this thread wouldnt have started and had so much input, and with smaller numbers, i wouldnt blame it all on the recession!
Obviously your not a HW fan ady, but if you came to an RR HW event, out of 3 shows, we will now only have about 1 or 2 OOTAs, the cages have stoped that and we have some very exciting fights which do last the whole 3 minutes or their is a knock out
ummm yeah jonno i am a hw fan, i have been watching fighting robots as long as you im sure,perhaps it just takes a bit more to entertain me,
the only reason i dont go to hw events is because my hw isnt finished, and i dont think its worth the travel/cost of tickets to attend to just watch. i find it entertaining if your in a competition just not soley to watch

i dont come to many events as im only interested mostly in full combat. hence i will always be at a robochallenge event when possible, i love to watch hw's, just only variety.

out of interest out of 40 active heavyweights i see you get about 1/2 attending to any of your events, except the one where you had 9, are these the same hw's most of the time? is their anything that can be done to get the other hw's out? or what can be done for people to build more hw's?

i will join the others i think, and just sit and read (think how many havent commented!) and why is that do you think?

[craig_anto]

Re: The future of roboting

Enough now
this is why people arent replying because people's responses are being considered with malice

some people on here lack mutual respect that we all deserve, we all put time and money into these machines Feathers middles heavies antweights, there all the same, sometimes fights are boring sometimes fights are amazing its just the way of the world

debating what is going to make it more exciting is a little pointless, 5 years ago any of todays robots would of been exciting, I think its not about what weight you wanna run or build its about what u build, if u build a rambot with 2 5mph wheelchairmotors then its going to be dull, build a rambot with 8 wheels and 8 motors and its going to be as dull its down to the fight,
when is someone going to build a proper walker that will get peoples attention

[Ianshock]

Re: The future of roboting

As a relative new comer...we're in our 3rd year and someone who doesn€™t post too many times (I leave that to Will !) I have to make some comments.

1. This thread was to try and create some ideas to support or promote our 'sport'....I applaud Craigs initiative. Thanks to the honest and open comments from the EOs they have some concerns of which we as a community should try and help with ...we owe them that much at least.

2. For 2 years I said we will never have a heavy.....but I gave in. Audiences pay to come and see 'Robot wars', we have to give them what they pay for...without that and good value for money they wont come...so lets not debate on this thread the pros and cons of introducing a new weight class when there is an underlying message from our EOs that to survive we have to find better ways of getting the crowds back in. We've built 6 or 7 feathers now....and that€™s a really great way into the support to generate new blood and continue the sport but when heavies are on the bill...thats all they want to see.

I am pleased we have resurrected St Agro and like Craig we try and make our machines to stand out so that there is something different.....there's still so much you can do to differentiate and give the crowd something to cheer for...but at the end of the day they want big, loud crashes and bangs.

3. Whilst we've been around for 3 years, there has still never been anykind of formal meeting (forget the formal FRA meetings) that happened during events to solicit and feedback and tell the story/status as is (pre show briefings are sometime a luxury !) This is probably because we are all up to our eyes in getting things ready to put on a good show. What€™s good about our community is there are so many people from different backgrounds etc I am sure we could all pitch in with a few ideas...but I am conscious that you have to earn the right to comment let alone criticise the EO's, who for some is their income. So maybe at the next event (RIAT for us and I for one am looking forward to a more relaxing event because events for me are SO STRESSFUL - too many robots me thinks !) Maybe it will be a chance to sit down and see what we can do.

4. There has been some debate about the forum. Some will hate me for saying this but I think there are maybe too many distractions/threads that dont help our cause....for me everytime I check the view active topics there are too many Fan Fic Quizzies post and I am not sure this is serving any purpose for EO's, active real life community etc ( sorry guys) but I recongnise very few as part of the Uk circuit, for me this doesnt add value to the forum. Of course we need a social side but without events we dont have a sport..... Also we seem to easily get off track and introduce new discussions - somewhat lack of discipline...so back to the original thread !!!

5. For events i think we should think more about staged fights...little bit of running around the arena ! etc. ... a bit like the fixed wrestling matches we use to see in the '70s for those old enough to remember. It should be like a boxing match....'introducing all the way from Newcastle, weighing in at 100kgs...etc' set the scene, create the drama (of course you cant do that with 20 feathers every show !)Havent seen too much play acting of recent - but seen plenty of wanting to win ! If I look at my kids 17 + 12 now, there's probably a new generation that didnt see robot wars...they are probably brought along by their dads who did see it...so maybe we could do more to address the new generation who have never seen it. Ideas to consider but without bums on seat not much use.

6. Buzz word at the moment is use of social media (well in my industry it is - I sell ATMs / cashpoints)...viral campains - effectively mass marketing via web,email, twitter, facebook and all the other forms ...all at no cost - Should we be doing more than just use of this forum and the odd post-event videos on You-tube ? No expert but when I see IBM and Deloitte using the like of Youtube you have to ask yourself why - with their mulit million $ marketing budgets do they use this fom. So maybe some mileage there ?

So glad got that off my chest. Longest post I have ever made....It's a great sport we have here, but to continue it sounds like it needs some help (and I mean more than just helping setup and take down the arena - which I am ashamed to say I've done little to assist !)
Have to say that Robots for Will has opened up several doors already and he hasnt left school yet..so lets keep this alive for everyones sake.

Cheers, Ian

[robotwars]

Re: The future of roboting

woooo steady on.

Im not having a go, and theres no need to start being sarcarstic.

I was merely saying, and ive just reread my post that....

Ok so you went to an event and had to carry it side ways and it scratched your car, it was annoying, and you dont like flippers as they make you yawn, and theres too many, and you dont like the idea of being thrown out of the arena after 20 seconds........ ok, your opinion.... im interested in all of that...but all im saying is..... most events have big doors, and ok we've all scratched our cars becuase of our robots, but carpet rubber and some planning, and they dont have to, and we now have cages to stop 20 second fights... we've moved on from maybe the last time you went to a HW event. Thats all.

From an Eo point of view, ok so people will build a middle weight, they will use wheel chair motors, maybe not even put a weapon on it. It will trundle around the arena. Now as an EO putting on a show would i want this, and do i see this as the future. answer is no. What would your answer be? IM just trying to understand peoples views.
This is about the future and where people see it. We wont all agree.

Im not shooting people down, im not having a go at anyone, all im doing is putting my point accross, the same as you have done.

This is what this forum needs some good debates, people to actually have a say in what they think, or how do i, or robots live or any EO know where to go with our hobby !!

Too many people are sititng probably reading this, but wont get involved....thats their choice, but then these same people may have something to say if they dont like when things are changed.

I fail to see why people dont get involved and take an interest.

I as an EO, was offered a job, a golden opportunity just a few weeks ago, and it would have meant giving robots up. For my sins, and in the current climate i will maybe live to regret it however here i am still posting on here at 11pm at night, and not preparing for a new chapter in my life starting in September. I turned it down.
It was a live changing decision of which is the hardest ive ever made, and up until 5 minutes before the phonecall I was still debating with my heart and head as to what to do.

The reason I am so active in this thread is because this is do or die time for RR, Ive said before, and I'll say it again, in the current climate so many buisiness's are failing, and some of my friends in the entertainment world have gone already. I am lucky I have a network of support that I am still alive, but only just.

So yes things are going to have to change, and believe me there will be changes coming, but what im trying to do is find out what people think, where people see things going, and how we can work together to keep what we love alive !!

John

[widow_twanky]

Re: The future of roboting

HAHAHA! Thanks Ian, you just reminded me of going to the Octagon in Bolton and watching 'The American Dream Machine' take on 'the softies' tag team and spin both of them round the arena with their arms and legs and then putting them both head first in a dust bin.

I suppose the fact I can remember that after 30 years is exactly your point.

That said I've given up any sort of arranged fight with you cos your boy doesn't play fair

Andy

[robotwars]

Re: The future of roboting

dont ever arrange a staged fight with meggamouse......

He can be in the pit and still get the audience vote !! GRRRRRRR

[widow_twanky]

Re: The future of roboting

The conversation at Guildford went:

It's Colins first one on one fight, he hasn't got used to the controls yet so can you at least give him a fight?

Response:

Not a problem

Result:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY7vrIy9 ... annel_page

4 seconds!!!!

Andy