New year message from the FRA

[john]

New year message from the FRA

ur last point is funny

[tim]

New year message from the FRA

Gary,

I agree entirely and wholeheartedly in the aims of the FRA

I also have no issue at all with the cost of membership (and I would imagine that most of the community are of the same mindset)

I also believe in freedom of choice - something which this move does not promote*.

Hopefully I am worrying unduly and everyone who wants to participate in events is also willing to join the FRA - but, in my opinion, we should never have got to a position of enforced membership and the offering made by the FRA (both in its aims and the implementation of those aims) should have sold itself to everyone in the community for the right reasons.

Reaffirming my previous post - if we were to lose a single team or individual as a result of this policy change then sadly, for me, the FRA will have failed in its aims



-1>*as per my original post - my understanding is that when the FRA was formed it was very much against the replication of the robot wars club and this feels very much like an evolution towards a similar concept to me

[typhoon_driver]

New year message from the FRA

If someone feels strongly against joining then surely they could get in contact with the event organisers to sort something out?

I cant see anyone turning away a team if there are good reasons.

[anukhet]

New year message from the FRA

The aims of the FRA are numerous and interlinking therefore I cannot see that this single decision would cause the FRA to fail in its aims two of which being To represent roboteer interests in negotiations with other bodies and to To provide consistency with regard to open event safety, arenas and robot build rules. The FRA works for its members and that is why we join.

To join or not to join. I admit to being cynical at times but I cannot see that event organisers requiring that participating teams are FRA members would be any reason in itself to cause member teams to quit - there are many more important issues such as cost/time/etc that have already caused many to give up and will continue to do so.

[leorcc]

New year message from the FRA

The way I see it the FRA is similar to the FIA. You pay for your racing license to the FIA, and to race on you local circuit you pay the racing club. From that standpoint, a 10 pounds is peanuts compared to an FIA license.

What is not exactly clear to me is the FRAs professional indemnity insurance. Specificlally who does it protect and against what? And as an non-uk member, does that protection also apply to me?

[craig_colliass]

New year message from the FRA

Tim
Thanks for your response

Ok lets take your point €œto my understanding is that when the FRA was formed it was very much against the replication of the robot wars club€ Can anyone find any information to confirm this was an original aim. Its not that I don€™t believe you are sincere, but as with my memory sometimes what was discussed in passing seems like it was €˜cast in concrete€™. Similarly this point may have been discussed but not adopted in the final policy draft. If it is, you have a serious point. If it isn€™t them I can€™t see any further mileage in it.

Can you acknowledge, the FRA have to drive standards for health and safety forwards, dose this decision not comply with the spirit of the line €œTo provide consistency with regard to open event safety€ if we all had the same insurance cover would this not be consistent with that phrase?

I also believe in personal freedom of choice, but would you agree that this has to be balanced with our corporate responsibility as a movement especially on maters of safety to the general public?

If you feel you cannot join the FRA then I for one would completely respect that decision. Perhaps as a way forward if you could find out the type of insurance cover that is afforded by FRA membership then replicate this from another source then you would be complying fully with the safety issue, and I€™m sure no event organiser would turn you away, this information could be shared so others with similar views to yourself could be covered, this would extend the freedom of choice to the whole robot community.

With regard to forgiveness I may be wrong but in my experience this kind of discussion is the tangent to a deeper and more painful problem!

When I was hurt by past events I didn€™t want answers to questions I just want to pick a fight! This may not be you but could it be someone you know? If I am wrong please forgive me I€™m only trying to help.

[ady]

New year message from the FRA

the way i look at it is that its only £10 per year, i also dont always agree on what the fra say or do, but deep down i know their main interests is the sport,
plus you have alot of people who give up their own time to keep this sport going and at a guess they sometimes find themselves out of pocket. its the same as when i have been to events, sure organisers may make a few quid from a show but i look at what they do to run an event and think is it really worth all this hassle? if they decided to give up where would it leave us?
i know nothing about forums but im guessing that this isnt free to maintain and run?, yet it is used by us all members or non. And being part of the FRA, surely you have to deal with some crap when things kick off on here, The amount of money i have saved in the past when i have gone to buy something and saved money by reading past posts on here first. i am also a member of a car owners club and just to post on their forum you have to be a member which costs £30 per year, and all you get is a crappy sticker for your car, nothing else, no news letter or anything.
i understand that not everyone wants to be a member i just find it hard to imagine why not, its a tenner or 83p per month! I also appreicate that if it wasnt for us robot builders their would be no fra, and it costs us to build and maintain these things, but hey what else would we be doing, i would probably be fishing or learning to knit lol.
thats my 10 pence worth.

[ady]

New year message from the FRA

also, this compulsory membership i guess has been agreed with the organisers that are fra approved, so this wasnt a decision made by one person.

found it
Your governing body held a meeting with the event organisers in November with no contentious outcome this year. You however have to be informed of one decision that they unanimously decided upon.

For 2008 and beyond all FRA approved event organisers require that participating teams are FRA members. ( there are rare and exceptional circumstances where the above does not apply, such as a first time out and certain non regular visitors from abroad.)

Your FRA governing body, fully back the event organisers position.


(Message edited by ady on January 07, 200

[andy_kane]

New year message from the FRA

Just to put things in perspective.

I thought my original post was clear.

At the event organisers meeting in November a proposal was put forward by Robot Rumble that all FRA approved event organisers should require that participants in their events were to be FRA members. This was agreed by those event organisers present. Robots Live,Robochallenge and Roaming Robots.

The FRA governing body has only endorsed and welcomed this view.

Where does this leave us today?

This means that for 2008, there is no rocky ground between roboteers and event organisers.

All can move forward together and have an enjoyable year.

And on that positive note, my team and I are looking forward to it.

DMAC:213 it is

[dmac]

New year message from the FRA

Thanks Andy.

[tim]

New year message from the FRA

Andy, thank you,

your original post was extremely clear (as indeed is this subsequent post) at explaining the what has happened - apologies if my questions have not been clear - for clarity they are:

1) To ask those that were present at the meeting as to why? (Something I do not feel is included in either post).

As the suggestion came from the event organisers then it is principally them that I am asking - if the answer is just because we want to then please feel free to say so.

Jenny subsequentially mentioned the Insurance cover - hence my follow up question of what has changed since last year although this would not appear to be an Event Organiser led rationalle.

2) What do the Event Organisers and the FRA governing body think of the possibility I described of the potential impact of this policy change on those few existing members of the community who do not want to join the FRA?


I might also argue that it actually means there is no rocky ground between the event organisers and the FRA more than with the roboteers, but a decent answer to my concerns expressed above could disuade me of this opinion.

[tim]

New year message from the FRA

-2>Seperate response to posts not directly relating to my line of questioning in order to keep clarity in my post above

For clarity - my posts have been entirely for the purpose of the two questions I highlight above and if my responses have been misinterpreted as trying to cause unrest or as a criticism of the FRA or event organisers then my apologies these are not the case

Craig - I do (and always have acknowledged) the role the FRA play in health and safety - but note this is a change led by the Event Organisers which does not in reality change the H&S situation.

Once again I would like to point out this is not about me but asking general questions for those roboteers in a specific group (that does currently exist). For the further purposes of any discussion in this thread please work on the assumption that I talking as if I were a member of the FRA - as I would be asking the same question regardless.


Adrian - I appreciate and respect your personal viewpoint on why you join the FRA - but this is not about rationalising how little money it costs - its about understanding the why behind the decision. On this basis I will not comment on the costs and comparisons either.


Oh - and this is not me fighting, I am just trying to get an answer to my perfectly valid questions, I am being persistent in my questioning to get the conversations towards the pertinent points that I am trying to highlight as I feel they are important questions that I would (perhaps selfishly) like answers to - as I feel this is an important decision to make.

[ady]

New year message from the FRA

fair comment tim, my answer to your question

What do the Event Organisers and the FRA governing body think of the possibility I described of the potential impact of this policy change on those few existing members of the community who do not want to join the FRA

if im honest i think very little, if their was concern it would have much impact then the organisers themselves wouldnt have gone ahead with it, as without roboteers it would have a big impact on them.

i dont know the story as im a bit of a newbee but i know xfm dont post events on here anymore due to issues of some sort, and as you are part of team storm/ed hoppit is your problems merely not related to this?

(Message edited by ady on January 07, 200

[ady]

New year message from the FRA

also everyone has probably read this thread by now so is it worth the ones not chuffed about this change to voice their concerns, then we have a number on how big a potential problem it is? without communication it wont get sorted out.

[babeth]

New year message from the FRA

What ? And open up that can of worms again ?
Been kicked once, smart enough to shut up now.:sad: Triumph of self-censure.