FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

[babeth]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

Hydraulic fluids are not consumed. CO² is. Use the CO² and you lose 2 kilos. The weight advantage lasts only as long as your store of flips. After that your robot becomes a weaponless and 2 kilos lighter bumpin car.

My 2 cents... why meddle with a format that works ?
For the featherweights the discussion is valid... a kilo gained counts for a LOT when you talk about 12 kilos. But a heavyweight ? It shrugs at the 2 kilos. The only reason why I object to extending the rule towards heavyweights is because a number of already very good and reliable robots will get into trouble then, already having been forced recently to scale down, this time a rules change might herald their demise.

Tough As Nails is a good example of this. Engineered quasi perfectly to weigh 100 kilos but how will Jeroen be able to shave off 2 kilos ? AGAIN ? Is he being punished for something or what ?

[leorcc]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

Well for starters unless something goes horribly wrong, the hydraulic robots do not loose there hydraulic fluids and stay 100kg, co2 machines loose weight as the fight goes on.

I do not think a weight change in heavies will add to safety. I do think however that if you do want to level the playing field for feathers to 13,6kg, you should also use 100kg for heavies including gas. RFL ruling for one, means also RFL ruling for the rest of the weight classes.

If this means that our Pneumatic rules go in effect with the RFL, it means the playing field is level all over te world. And that is in the end the best for all of us.

But that would also mean that A123 cells should be allowed in all weight classes, since they are already allowed all over the world except the FRA. It will give the heavies a chance to drop down in weight more easily without having to make fundamental changes to the design of the robot.

[mjm]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

Why include all excisting HW robots in this? It is possible to let them run to old rules, like it is done in car racing where old models run in the same race as new models.
The old ones will disappear faster then we can adopt new rules, anyway.

[craig_colliass]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

then could the hydraulic boys have a case to not include the hydraulic fluid in their machines
I was joking!!

[maddox]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

Craig, its rather simple and light to enlarge the pressureless oiltank to 10L of oil, nothing done easely in the CO2 using robots, as the storage tank is prohibitively heavy.

[leorcc]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

Until recently I was under the impression that the FRA had a democratic process, were your reps and boardmembers give information openly and freely to the members so they know what is going on and what is discussed.
You know, like any decent democratic organisation would do.

Now aside from some things that happened in the past, where the truth is always somewhere in the middle, I was still convinced of the usefullnes of the FRA, and still promoted the idea of the FRA. Now imagine my surprise when Dave Lang posted this agenda for the next reps meeting, and to find topics of discussion that have never even been discussed at events or AGM, and even worse, not being disclosed to members. Even worse, Dave got some serious flack about posting said agenda, as if members are not supposed to know about this.

Anyone who has read this agenda will agree these topics should NOT be decided upon without proper consult with the FRA members. No matter wether you are in favor or against the proposed rule changes, everyone should be heard in this, and not just be discussed by a handfull of people.

I for one am thankful to Dave for posting the agenda, so we at least could see it in advance, and could have a in my opinion healthy discussion on the consequences of said proposals.

But when i woke up yesterday morning and did my rounds of the various robot related fora, I came accross this line at robotforum.co.uk:

quote:

Sorry, but this board is currently disabled due to legal action being threatened by certain individuals.

This is just wrong. Not just in a legal sense, but in a moral sense. This should NEVER happen to a person who has the best intentions with the sport and the FRA members. If this is the way a person is treated as a FRA rep who did what the FRA should have done itself, then I say the FRA is no longer forfilling its aims as protrayed on the very first page of the FRA website.

quote:

-Promotion and education of all things to do with robots, of all weights, shapes and sizes -To provide consistency with regard to open event safety, arenas and robot build rules.
-To centralise communications, in effect be a library of contacts and to promote the sport.
-To encourage the set up of regional meeting clubs, that are either part of the FRA or affiliated to the FRA.
-To endeavour to work with other countries associations for the betterment of our sport.
-To represent roboteer interests in negotiations with other bodies.
-To generally make the roboteers lot a better one.

[leorcc]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

If someone is wondering why i waited so long to post this, that is

a: because it is never a good idea to start posting when your emotions flare up, so I usually put in a cooldown period.

b: I wanted to check with a moderator my posting is not in violation of the forum rules.

[maddox]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

Bravo, Bravo. Bravo.

now to find a new name for it all.

[ady]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

im annoyed that that forum has been disabled, it is a good forum. i hope it is not related to anything here, i dont know about anyone else but i havent been enjoying it here lately.

[craig_colliass]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

I was surprised to find the other forum was disabled and the reason was possible legal action,
I would ask that all people concerned with this, to spend time cooling down, and considering the good of the whole roboting community.
Please try not to consider any dissention or disagreement as a personal attack, there are problems, lets work through them together with the good of the whole robot community in the for front of all our minds.

[leorcc]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

I totally agree with that Craig.

It has been brought to my attention that I havent got the full picture. This may be true (99% sure I dont have the full picture), but still that has something to do with the secrecy that is my grievence in the first place.

I advocate openess in organisations like the FRA to all its members, where I do understand that not everything should be discussed on a public forum.

But still things that are of interest of all members, like proposed rulechanges, or issues pending, must be communicated to all its members in a timely fashion. Wether you use this forum, or a closed of section of this forum only accessable by paying FRA members, or use the reps to convey the messages, or email, or regular mail, its all the same to me. But members have a right to know these things in advance so we have a chance to voice our opinions and come up with our own possible solutions in time.

[simon_windisch]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

I dont know whats going on here, but its almost always better to talk. Lets not have a bust up, I was just starting to enjoy myself.

Simon

[ewan]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

Havent a clue whats happening but Ill say all the (REMOVED WORD) is a good reason why Ive cut back my participation in the sport. Openness is clearly an evil the FRA (the FRA being such a generic term these days) wishes to disassociate itself with.

Good luck with surviving the sport.

(Message edited by big_nipper on October 14, 2007)

[aliboy]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

I second what Ewan has said.

[andy_kane]

FRA reps meeting (on the 13th Oct 207)

€œThis is just wrong. Not just in a legal sense, but in a moral sense. This should NEVER happen to a person who has the best intentions with the sport and the FRA members. If this is the way a person is treated as a FRA rep who did what the FRA should have done itself, then I say the FRA is no longer forfilling its aims as protrayed on the very first page of the FRA website.€

The Dave Lang website was created because of a misconception that this forum is censored, which it is not.

The people in the main that use this site use it correctly, after all it is one of the biggest websites for roboteering in the world. 200,000 visits in July, alone.

This website has all sorts of people visit, and use it, including minors etc and should be used with this in mind.

The Dave Lang website was an area where so called free speech was practised without regard for the people they were writing about or whether the content was true and accurate.

A public website is like a news paper, if you print libellous or defamatory content the publisher will have lawyers on his back.

Although Dave has done nothing wrong himself, he is finding out that he is personally responsible for the content that others write.

There is UK case law for this situation.

I believe that Dave may have taken the view that it was easier to close the site than to censor the written content, ie do the exact opposite of why the site was set up for in the first place.

As folk have now migrated to a facebook site, this is now the free speech area.
From what I hear today the content of the facebook forum is not accurate in some posts.

With regard to the FRA paperwork that was posted on the Dave Lang site he was told to remove it for the following reasons.

AGM minutes had not been agreed by the FRA governing body.

The 17th FRA agenda had named individuals contained in its text and therefore the FRA itself could have been liable under the data protection act.

Dave being a new member of the FRA governing body did not understand this and posted them.

Dave did not take up the offer of advice as to the way the FRA works as he became a new governing body member.

After three apologies to the governing body, and two resignations and that is before he ever got to his first FRA meeting, it is a real disappointment as he is a real roboteer.