Announcement

**john_frizell** · 21 January 2007, 23:39

FRA urgent announcement

To the FRA;

In an earlier posting today you said;

Membership fee is still Â£10 per year.

Our bills to keep the association going have to be paid by 31/3/07. If you have not read our meeting minutes you will not be aware of the fact that if you are a past or existing member the membership fee for joining after the 31/3/07 is Â£20.
Exclusions to the above are new member teams and roboteers from mainland Europe the membership fee is Â£10 at any time of the year.

Membership cards will be distributed starting 9/10 Feb at the Robots Live event.

Please post an address and Ill mail you a cheque.

**typhoon_driver** · 22 January 2007, 00:27

FRA urgent announcement

http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/join.htmhttp://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/join.htm

**maddox** · 22 January 2007, 13:07

FRA urgent announcement

I cannot avoid thinking about the begin posting of the FRA.

It sounded if the rules were accepted unanimous.

During this discusion it became obvious it wasnt.

**geoff** · 22 January 2007, 13:29

FRA urgent announcement

Mario,
I was at this meeting, and I can assure you that I heard no objections from any of the event organisers present.
In fact, given that this was a matter of safety, it was the event organisers who agreed that the new guidlines be adopted there and then without the usual 3 month waiting period.

**storm** · 22 January 2007, 14:03

FRA urgent announcement

Although I can only speak on behalf of XFM, what was stated was thus :

It would be foolish to ignore the proposed changes before the 3 month period, as they are meant to represent what the FRA believes is the new best practice. Should any accident take place and any organiser was not found to be following what is thought to be best practice they could be liable. This was agreed by all.

What is up for discussion is whether the proposed guidelines are best practice, XFM for one stated that we would have to take this under advisement and asked to go on record thus as an on the spot deciscion would have been inappropriate.

This is a discussion for the wider community and NOT the event organisers. The arena build guidelines document is owned by the FRA and thus the roboteers (not the event organisers) and this was made clear at our meeting. If Roboteers disagree it is for them to say so to the FRA and propose alternatives.

Ed
http://www.extremefightingmachines.comhttp://www.extremefightingmachines.com

**maddox** · 22 January 2007, 14:27

FRA urgent announcement

Geoff, just taking comments from this forum lets me think otherwise.

Exerpts from postings in this tread.

XFMs point of view.

However, we did not agree the changes raised at the meeting as suggested above, we stated that we would take time to consider the proposals and would respond accordingly.

Robots Live public posting.

We also did not agree the changes raised at the meeting as suggested.

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This means 2 of the 4 event organisers with an arena worth being called an arena are not agreeing totaly. Or unanious on all the changes; Only that safety is an urgent issue. But not how it was presented or pushed.
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Comments from other fora give me this information.

DRG, GRA and Robowars/AFM are not even contacted.

The australians , with Spockie Tech on the lead just voice to ignore this whole thing.
I must admit, compared to the UK roboteering community we are with a lot less roboteers.

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Also, if I read the starting posting it appears to me that the FRA has a lawgiving capability. Or can push insurance compagnies.
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So I restate my question. What if an organiser just ignores the FRA?

(Message edited by maddox on January 22, 2007)

**grant_ploughbot** · 22 January 2007, 15:30

FRA urgent announcement

I dont understand what the main fuss is about. The only difference that effects organisers is the new roof regulations. A grade two arena, capable of holding a spinning robot must have the equivelent of 10mm screens. Up untill now arenas holding spinners should have been built to this, or atleast built to be capable of holding spinners.

**james...venom** · 22 January 2007, 15:43

FRA urgent announcement

I also can account for geoff. At the meeting nobody objected to the new regulations. I was led to belive from ed that xfm would need to decide wheather they would carry on with events without spinners or cease event organising. Not wheather they agree with the new guildlines. Unless XFM are to perform thier own testing how can they have a better idea of what is safe to be used.

Please remember that the new build guidlines wernt just thought of and approximated. They have the backing from actual physical testing from the FRA. My self and Nick Cooper both agreed to the new guildlines as we ourselves have done the testing aswell and so could agree on the results and the new standards.

The only way somebody i belive could not agree is if they themselves have done testing and have found different results to those found by the FRA.

**dragonmaster_1** · 22 January 2007, 15:45

FRA urgent announcement

Well it would have been nice if we had been given abit of notice that this was being considered. As most people I know rebuild there robots at this time of year for the next season. I would have waited and not spent what spare cash I had on my spinner which I now cannot use in most of the large events this year. I would have spent it on one of my boring boxes instead.

**james...venom** · 22 January 2007, 15:58

FRA urgent announcement

Hi tony,

we will try and put on more events this year for the full combat machines. Will keep you updated

**andy_kane** · 22 January 2007, 17:10

FRA urgent announcement

It is normal FRA practise to give 3 months notice of changes to rules/guidelines.
The four event organisers present at the meeting
decided that they would accept the FRA proposal with certain modifications and with immediate effect.

This was done on the basis of something called guilty knowledge an HSE term.

This whole process was started by the event organiserss themselves recognising that there is a problem and one demanded that the FRA get involved, which we have to do as holder of the guidelines.

Spinning Robots and a fabric arena roof are a serious potential disaster. It is the Roboteers that will suffer if an accident happens. The event organisers know this but are any of them willing to carry on with spinners and fabric roofs.Time will tell!

The FRA cannot publish the new 2007 guidelines until the event organisers agree the modifications they have asked for, and it has been ratified by the FRA governing body.

Mr De Jongh.
While I have no problem with you adding to the debate, I would feel however that any arguement that you have would have some weight if you were actually a member of the FRA.

**ady** · 22 January 2007, 17:30

FRA urgent announcement

this is probably the whole reason he aint a member.

**maddox** · 22 January 2007, 17:31

FRA urgent announcement

Mr Kane, I was one of the most vocal proposants for the FRA over on the mainland.
This changed during the UK championships last year.
At the moment I feel rather annoyed by it all. It feels like politics and mixing of interests

If that Â£10 is that important , something is very very wrong with the FRA.

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We all knew that the fabric roofs used by the event organisers last year werent enough to stop a serious piece of schrapnell. Still we had to see a potential disaster happen before persons in charge did something. And now, it just gots rammed trough the troaths.
It is not as if the organisers allowed the strongest spinners to fight in their arenas, before or after.

I for one wasnt in charge there.... Even if I would have objected, I wouldnt be listend too , as you nicely say Mr Kane.
Thanks for making it clear a roboteer has to pay his FRA tax before he can speak.

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Oh well, Im fully expenting to be banned soon now. Like others have noticed before me when going against the grain.

Still my question is unaswered.

What if an organizer just ignores the FRA?

(Message edited by maddox on January 22, 2007)

**andy_kane** · 22 January 2007, 18:01

FRA urgent announcement

Mario,
You use the word tax

You have used this forum for 765 posts and quite a few of them have been at other roboteers expence.

You enjoy the free speech but are not prepared take the responsibility for how it is delivered.

For the record at the UK championships I was not in charge.

**leorcc** · 22 January 2007, 18:04

FRA urgent announcement

Andy, that was a real cheap shot. I dont like that kind of arguing at all. And I dont like the implication that you have to be a member to make a valid argument in this discussion or even post on this forum.