Proposals from the RFL

[geoff]

Proposals from the RFL

John,
Whilst I fully respect your views on 12 Kg feathers, from a personal perspective I think Im now the first UK roboteer that will have to try to deal with this diference on a practical level.
Jenny & I have signed up Pillow Torque for Robogames 2007 in San Fransisco next June. Now as things stand, if I wish to enter it into any UK or European event it must be 12Kg or less (which it is) I will then have to do some radical re-design for Robogames, contary to popular belief its not just a case of sticking on an extra 1.6Kg of armour!
Once it returns it will need yet another rebuild to return it to our specs.
Now, the next problem that I have is with my new machine, as this is being built for Robogames Im building this at 13.6Kg from the start. As things stand, under the current FRA weight classes and Johns ruling on 12Kg feathers at his events, I wont be allowed to even enter it into an event for a test prior to the US event in June. As this machine is a little complex Im not certain I could rebuild it within 12Kg on its return. Therefore I may be left with something that is unuseable in the UK /Europe as things stand.
Having had one machine from the US come to play over here I dont think we can use the well nobody would want to ship a machine halfway around the world for an event argument any more.

In short, the question has to be asked in view of the fact that machines have and will travel to events in other countries, which I think you all agree can only be of benifit to our sport... How long can we in the UK / Europe stand alone when the rest of the world has accepted 30lb (13.6Kg) feathers?

Just a perspective from someone who is having to deal with the reality of the current situation.

[geeza]

Proposals from the RFL

I take Johns point that people have spent a long time developing 12Kg robots, but I dont really care what the weight limit is. It just means existing robots can have more armour or more mass in disks etc. Just because there is a limit doesnt mean it has to be used, Tiberius 4 is 10Kg underweight, and is still a robot I would not like to fight in full combat.

(Message edited by geeza on September 03, 2006)

[maddox]

Proposals from the RFL

My adagia are
every gram counts, even in a superheavy walker
if you can paint your machine you had weight left

Its not as simple as it seems the weightrase to 13.6 kg. Just sticking on 1.6 kg of armor, and your motors and speedos will have to work harder, batteries will get drained faster.
If the weightbalance is still ok. You could end up with a sluggish handling robot, even when it was agile and perfectly controlable on 12 kg.

The rase to 13.6 kg could give people the chance to armour up against the current, small, crop of spinners, but this will also give the flippers or crushers the possibility to deal with the driving bunkers.
Flippers just dont care about armour.

I myself am not a pro 13.6 kg guy, 12 kg is a challenge in its own right. But if the rules change, Ill have to adjust the plans I have, and will live with it.

[leorcc]

Proposals from the RFL

I only knew about the weight change to 100 kg 3 months in advance, not 12. But then again that also had to do with the lack of information coming through from BNN. Still, I never gave the weight increase much thought.

Still, im quite happy if the increase to 13.6kg is introduced, and just as happy if it stays at 12. Ill build to whatever the rules are going to be. Starting tomorrow if need be.

[babeth]

Proposals from the RFL

There will always be discussions about weight rules. I mean, there has been one last year right ? The bottles anyone ? The rules will always be under evaluation and re-evaluation.
But the point of this discussion revolves around having to choose from 2 different standards... metric or American (which is in fact English if I remember correctly) ? While I fail to see the logic in the non-metric standard, being not entirely unbiased in this since I was raised in the metric standard, someday somehow we must come to an understanding and get on with it, internationally.
In both standards the already applied weight rules seem logic, just the smaller one times 2 or so. In the end, though, it was always chosen in a more or less arbitrary way.

Me, personally, I would like to see the Americans finally grow up and accept the inevitability of a more logical -thus metric- standard. But thats chauvinism. Or my own flaw when it comes to understanding miles, yards, feet, inches, pounds, ounces, stones and other such monstrosities.
The Americans insisting the rest of the world should just wisen up and accept their standards just because they use it... oh well... deep inside we are all chauvinist pigs.
But the problem still stands: why should we give up a perfectly sensible 12 kilos up to a weird 13.6 kilos nobody with a right mathematic sense would understand the reason for ?

In a nutshell: Im not happy with the 13.6 kilos. There is no reason for the change. If Americans want to come over and put their own 13.6 kilos against European 12 kilos, let them. Theyre the ones who have to ship the ensuing wrecks home afterwards. Higher weight, higher shipping fees.

[tough_as_nails]

Proposals from the RFL

Ok, but why would i build a new 13.6kg robot if i can only use it overthere? Im looking forward to 13.6kg so im able to finish my feather.

I dont mind if its metric or not. Im designing all day with tenth of a millimeter for bending tolerances. Its impossable to only use whole dimensions for imperial and for metric. And for example,I think we all use BSP thread in our robots.

And 13.6kg feathers can be build cheaper cos new roboteers can more easely use standard lead batteries or windscreenwipermotors. Its for sure that we need new roboteers aswell. It should be made easyer for them.

[kronic]

Proposals from the RFL

I agree with Jeroen. Anything to make it easier for new blood to get into the sport is a good thing right?

[typhoon_driver]

Proposals from the RFL

Well i hate to pee on your chips (love that phrase ) but I was able to fit 2 wipers and 2 SLAs in the original configuration of hornet along with some hardox plate. It all depends on what you do with the weight that counts.

Although I do think that the weight limit should be harmonized in some way. Ideally a compromise should be come to but if we have to 13.6 then up we go!

[RogueTwoRobots]

Proposals from the RFL

Ill second Garys point about the wipers etc - infact when we ran an axe in our RRC bot it had three wiper motors and two SLAs (think they were about 1.2kg each) and still was within weight. Ok, so the armour didnt exceed 1.5mm and the axe was crap but still...

[grant_ploughbot]

Proposals from the RFL

In my very first event, i ran two SLAs and 3mm steel armour all round with an active lifter and still only weighed 10kg so its not like 13.6kg will ,make it easier because its already easy. Aslong as some people have money to invest in fancy batteries and motors just the weight will NEVER make it easier for new blood. Thats why Ed hoppit has started the Cadet class, with limitations on components and materials!
Will more people be changing weight limits if it was 12kg or 13.6kg?