Armour ideas / materials

[Ellis]

edit: several posts were put up as I wrote this, so sorry if I'm simply repeating others!
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The money put into a first time heavyweight would make, with the right person behind it, an explosive high end featherweight easily. It would make several. A fleet of powerful feathers would surely be way more impressive than an inevitably clunky first heavyweight, built in the same time frame and for the same cost.

Also if your goal is to learn about mechanics, you'll undoubtedly have as many challenges in featherweights as with heavies, especially if you build with the featherweight spinner competitions in mind.

Don't think that featherweight combat is any less of a spectacle, in fact I'd say it's several times more impressive to watch. I made a montage of the Gadget Show Live 2013, where the '13 FW champs were held.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_zDLNbwK3k

That is a mere taster. ^

In my opinion it's far more impressive to see your machine withstand the hits from the top FW machines than to take being knocked about and flipped by the heavies. The pace of the feathers is incredible. For example, 720, the small black drum robot you'll see throughout that video, came third this year. The builder is now making the weapon hit 35% harder for next year. You simply don't get that rate of evolution in heavyweights anymore.

What I don't want to do here is put you off anything. Enthusiastic new blood is very very welcome. But if your aim is to learn and impress at the same time, and money is no real object, I can't see the logic in ignoring featherweight combat. You'll learn more building three featherweights than you will by attempting a single heavyweight.

In any case I wish you luck. If you manage to build a competitive heavyweight then I'll happily sit back down.

edit: proof of the fact that robot combat has changed might be in that featherweights have the same or thicker armour than today's heavyweights.

[Gaseraki]

In terms of the attack I would use a fast actuator to be able to fully close in 15 Seconds +/-

That made me chuckle. Not being rude sorry

Advice given in this thread is very sound from many very experienced builders. As mentioned featherweights can be as complicated or as simple as you want just like heavyweights.
For example in a feather you can create your own transmission or use drill motors
You can take a similar process with heavies (purchase NPC geared motors) but again, much more expensive.

[Max]

If you are set on building a heavyweight, I'd make a simple push/wedge bot first without an active weapon and without planning for a weapon system to be added latter, then enter that into an event and see how it does, then do a rebuild with all the same components (drive motors, batteries, escs) but with a different chassis with the weapon, your ideas will change and improve having built the basic robot and you won't waste money on components that aren't up to the job.
Thai gives you more practice welding and how to make a steel chassis, I'd make the chassis and armour from mild steel to keep costs low for the first robot then upgrade to hardox latter on the second version.

[maddox10]

One last question What are the Average Dimensions / Size Rules for Heavyweight robots. I understand 55KG - 100KG but in terms of size W x H x D?

The old Mentorn rules gave 1400mm*2000mm, height not limited, but had to fit trough the door.
The current evolution is to build as small as possible, to fit the thickest armor within the weight limit.
It's funny to see some heavies are the same size as large feathers.

[Flag Captured]

Personally, as with what a few others have said here, I'd start with the featherweights and go to heavy events - I'm in no way an experienced roboteer (I have about 3 projects in the pipeline, one of which spontaneously combusted a few weeks ago, and no events under my belt yet) but featherweights are vastly more simple to build for newcomers to the sport I'd say - you can use drill motors for drive which come in at about £12 a piece for where I get them from (with some admittedly lacklustre batteries but they are usable) and again, you don't need to spend as much on armour because the thing's only smaller. Likewise with ESCs that don't need to be as beefy, so they can cost less (I think)

I've learned a lot from building my first featherweight, and I'm still learning as time goes on - my aim is also to build a heavyweight at some point, but the way the sport's evolved has meant that you need a fair bit of experience and money to get into the 'competitive' realm of heavyweights, not that that's to put you off, mind, just an observation of mine.

Still, it could be possible, you'll just need to design it well - for that, I'd say go to events or watch the videos on Youtube - there's loads of videos videos of various events, feathers and heavyweights alike. I'd suggest checking them all out and working it from there - counterdesigning against both flippers and spinners is something I've really had to focus on with my machine!

Good luck to you, whatever you decide to build!

[Jon Smith]

White Flag Raised.
Ok I will build a feather weight. So I will revert to my original design but downscale. Bringing back the flywheel. Sorry guys for being a Ignorant idiot and thank you for smashing the square peg of feather weight into the round hole of my brain. So Any tips for feather?

[Ellis]

No need to be down on yourself, if anything you now have reason to be more enthusiastic! Welcome to the world of robot combat, or rather, welcome to the jungle?

Look forward to whatever you come up with now.

[typhoon_driver]

Go look in the featherweight section. Several how do I start type threads. If you can't find an answer by all means ask.

[maddox10]

You don't have to give in on the feather-push. I would like more heavies. But it's a steep learning curve with a pricetag attached.

Oh well. The formula for a robot. Time*Resources*Creativity= robot.
Time doesn't need an explanation.
Resources can go from the obvious, a stack o money, to a workshop, to a large pile of "scrapyard parts".
Creativity encompasses all non tangible resources. From raw brainpower, to a deft hand at google fu.

Coming to events is a great way to fuel creativity.

The questions you can ask yourself.
Spend time and creativity to re-invent the drivetrain, or spend money to buy a semi-ready to use one?
Testbed with Plywood, or going full monty with the "right stuff"?

[Jon Smith]

I will mess around with some wood first after I have the basic Battery, Motors, TX, RX, ESC's because then I can work out the size a shape I need. I will almost certainly drop into a event when I can (spectate). I will go for a Heavy after don't count that out, I just know that your advice and everyone's is 100 times better than my brain alone. I will be buying parts pretty soon so what's the best motors available for a reasonable price?

[maddox10]

Best motors for a reasonable price. What do you want? Uberpower, speeds approaching the take off speed of a brick? Or something as light in weight as possible and still capable of inducing movement?

Also, a motor alone won't cut the chase. Gearing is important as well.

[Jon Smith]

Well for simplicity It would be handy to get a motor with a suitable gearbox pre-fitted. I will be using a spinner so I want to be fast and nippy to stay away from flippers and get at weak spots around the back.

[Jon Smith]

oh yes I will also make the robot invertible so it is possible to run upside down as this is a common feature of other spinners, Although I want to keep angled sides to increase armour effectiveness. I really think I should start a new thread in feather weight.

[maddox10]

You could ask the moderators to clean up the thread.

[Ellis]

Either there or in Build Diaries. ^

As for drive, a set of argos drills will set you pack perhaps 25 quid. For that you get two motors with gearboxes attached. They aren't combat-ready, they need some tweaks, but nothing drastic. There are videos on the channel in my signature explaining how to make such a motor combat ready. It's a tad out of date in terms of what I have to share on how to make them rugged but it will do the job.

With 4 inch wheels and nominal voltage, you're looking at about 7mph with drills. If you change some of the gearbox internals (parts are cheap and easily available) you can up that to around 10mph quite easily. I will make a video about this someday.

Drill-alikes exist. The products from Gimson.co.uk are essentially drills in a more usable shape, i.e., mounting is easier as it comes with bolt holes. Price is higher, of course. Speeds will be the same as with drills, with the same slightly faster option should you want it.

There are a few much higher end (and more reliable) options, sadly nearly all only found in the US. "Banebots" and "Magnum" gearboxes and motors come to mind. Prices are doubled once again, and there is postage to think about, but they are fancy bits of kit.

There are options for custom gearboxes, though they will require some engineering. Typically you buy larger motors (generally lower RPM, more torque) than those found in drills and the like, then take a single stage reduction using gears from them to the wheel(s). Two-stage reductions are often needed because top speeds can be very high and torque low with single-stage reductions. Mario (maddox) is adept with custom gearboxes. I can't say I recommend this for a first build, but it's there.

A much less powerful but still viable option, though I know little about them, is "bosch 35"s. The 35 meaning watts I believe. They're found powering the seat adjustments in old jaguars, so ebay or the scrapyard might be your friend there. They aren't directly usable and they won't make for a powerful drive system, one could argue they're a little pointless these days, but again they'll make a robot move.

There are of course many many in-between options, but the above are some of the typical starting points for feathers.