hydraulic lifters/crushers?

[mattsdragons]

are hydraulic lifters and crushers still able to compeat under the current rules?

ones similar to these?

http://robotwars.wikia.com/wiki/Eric

(video for better show of what im talking about)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGOArcmvO6Q

[typhoon_driver]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

yes both tiberius and kan opener are hydraulic robots however they are very complex machines.

[mattsdragons]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

so systems such as the one on eric are still alowed under the current ruels?

[ewan]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

If you read them you'd see that they were...

[mattsdragons]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

im unsure on the rules of hydraulic accumulators, are these banned or not?

[jonny]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

yes they are banned, read the hydraulics section in the build rules

[Anttazz]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

Is there a story behind accumulators being banned or was it just decided upon?

[maddox10]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

Is there a story behind accumulators being banned or was it just decided upon?

It's logical that hydraulic accumulators are banned. These parts act like a pneumatic 1 stroke pump. And these make hydraulics live any moment these are pressurised.

Like working on a live and active robot. Even with the link out.

[teamstorm]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

Is there a story behind accumulators being banned or was it just decided upon?

It's logical that hydraulic accumulators are banned. These parts act like a pneumatic 1 stroke pump. And these make hydraulics live any moment these are pressurised.

Like working on a live and active robot. Even with the link out.

Although that has always (to me) seemed no different to a gas bottle in a robot ? Always live when pressurised, regardless of whether the link is in and out. I don't see why the similar sorts of safety precautions couldn't be put in place in robots using one to those using gas.

[maddox10]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

The big difference is that you can isolate the CO2 bottle by the expedient of keeping the bottlevalve closed, and as added safety feature the dump valve open.

And yes, you can desing hydraulic systems with the accumulator closed off from the hydraulic system, or a setup that includes pressurising the accumulator when linking up.

You can even design a combination of hydraulic and pneumatic power.

But how many people can design such a setup, and more importantly, maintain it?

On the other hand, I'm more inclined to ignore the knowledge and maintenance issue, as that is up to the roboteers capabilities or wallet.

All in all, it's a leftover in the rules from the Mentorn Days, and something that didn't come up, because accumulators are bloody heavy, large and expensive parts with limited utility for our machines. To have one that gives hydraulics the speed and power to emulate a pneumatic flipper, the accumulator would be the size of the ram as would be used in a pure pneumatic setup. But again, that would be to the Roboteers creativity to solve.

[Anttazz]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

I see what you mean there, the problems are the same for pneumatics but there have been additions made to the build rules to make them more safe whereas hydraulics just seem to have not really come up. Even if they didn't reach the same sort of explosive power that even LP pneumatics have, presumably the biggest advantage of going with a hydraulic system would be longevity in a battle, not worrying about how much gas is left in the tank or how cold it is getting.

I was just asking because Jonny recently told me about the ruling to do with clusterbots now being frowned upon in the heavyweights and it had a reason behind it, so was wondering if it was something similar.

What series were accumulators banned by Mentorn? I know there were a few machines using them in the early series and also I believe Psycho used them for the hammer. Saying that, I also realise that Psycho was also something like 600kg, and Bash had a flamethrower, so the build rules didn't always apply to the house robots.

[mattsdragons]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

I do think that what was alowed with the house robots should have been ok with competitors since they used things like flamethrowers without a problem

[craig_colliass]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

On this point I agree with Ed, I can see no difference with 1000psi compressed gas, held in accumulators that have not been certified or tested by a third party for the purpose (that could be hit with an AXE). and an accumulator on a hydraulic system, It's a bit like saying falling from 1000 meters is bad. but falling from 100 meters is OK, to my mind both will kill you!!
I like the rules to be as open as possible this keeps the inventive side of the sport going at it's best. I can't think the rule change would make much difference as the only 2 robots that have Hydraulics are Kan Opener and Tiberius, there are others but I have only seen them on rare occasions.
Robots with Hydraulics have issues with weight so an accumulator would not be practical in most cases.
Let them have their fun

[terry]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

Just ban all the slugs instead eh craig !

[craig_colliass]

Re: hydraulic lifters/crushers?

No just yours.

Like I say I like to keep the rules as open as possible (Slugs included) For me accumulators aren't a problem.