New featherweight builders

[robjones]

New featherweight builders

Im a 100% behind a second class of feathers, its a great suggestion.

We do need to discuss exactly what makes particular robots become the higher class.

I personally dont think that cost should be a consideration, its not very practical to check this at an event.
I agree on a blanket ban on spinners in the entry class.
I agree on a ban on the more powerful motors.
I think armour should by either aluminium or wood
I think pneumatics should be the cheap compressors only, used with a reservoir. (like some of the early flipper featherweights)

I also think that the entry class fights should be judged by control, style agression etc not damage

[psychostorm]

New featherweight builders

Id have to say yes to a two tier system.

Ive always wanted a lower performance class to actually see if there is room for more elaborate entertainment machines that wouldnt really stand a chance otherwise (Napalm, Robopig (I still say that could have righted on the spring!) and Twn Trwn, etc.)

1: Current FRA safety rules to apply I.E. must have a removable link, power light, failsafes, use 40Mhz FM , etc. Obviously
2: No stored kinetic energy (spinning) weapons.
Specify a disc specificly designed to use intertial energy. I wouldnt mind the odd pussycat style blade. Maybe an RPM limit too.
3: Any pneumatic system to be low pressure only. Theres room for cylinder volume here should you want it.
4: No titanium or other exotic materials.
5: Hardox will be permitted. For these 2 Id mention non-usage for shell/ frame structure only. I wouldnt blame a wedge for a ti blade on front or anyone using it for a moving non-drive weapon.
6: No rare earth magnet motors (Astroflight, Magmotors, Thingap motors, etc.) Should this include Dewalts?? If we ban too high some weapons may not have enough power. maybe slip the word drive in here somewhere too...
7: Type or make of speed controllers will not be restricted. Why would you want to???
8: Batteries to be SLA, Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh. Li-poly will not be permitted. Damn right
9: Should there be a financial limit placed on construction of the robot? (Say £250 excluding radio equipment) No, I think the rules are strict enough. Besides its too hard to enforce.
10: These machines to fight within their own class, but will be permitted to fight in the top level if the builder feels brave enough! But no machines from the top level will be allowed to fight in this entry class. If any suicidal machines want to enter with scorpion, thats their business but Im certainately not cleaning the arena after them.

Also I agree with Rob, we shouldnt place the emphasis on damage. Thats why its gotten to the point where we need a sub class in the first place!

[james...venom]

New featherweight builders

I think damage is still neccisary for the lower class otherwise you will lose the robot fighting part of it. I dont think cost should be limited, there are too many loop holes that people could get round.

I think basic limits should be made. Something similar to rexs rules but allowing certain drill/gold motors etc. but again you can get some very powerfull drills and who would test them at an event to see if they are beyond the limit?

Other things to be considered would be armour thinckness, materials allowed and weapon types.

I think an outright ban on spinners is unfortunatly nessisary. I do like fighting some spinners as it gets your guts going which is what i fight the machine for in the first place but i think it would just be too hard to make limits for them.

[geeza]

New featherweight builders

Armour thickness could also be quite hard to measure, reason being I classify my armour on DB5 as 2mm Titanium but behind that there is 8mm Ally. This is mainly part of the chassis, but also acts as armour. Any ideas on how this situation would be judged if an armour thickness was enfored.

I do think some types of metals should be outlawed for a lower class

Agree no FP pneumatics should be allowed, also agree on the rare earth magnet motors should be banned in the lower class.

[leorcc]

New featherweight builders

so what if you buy a set of motors from somewhere without specs being known to you, should you test them in some way to figure out what class they fall in?

[bex]

New featherweight builders

Hmmm glad this as been mentioned actually... I have considered buliding my own feather but because of lack of experience and being up against more experienced ones, well i dont stand a chance. Its something that needs to be thought about because im sure im not the only one thats being put off. Money is also an issue being a student and only getting weekend pay i wouldnt be able to afford to keep repairing a bot, again im sure im not the only one with that problem. For someone who hasnt seen these bots in action and are TOTAL beginners with no one with any experience of building then i can see that they might be up against an experienced robot and get completely destroyed at that stage i would probably give up as well. A cost limit... hmmm i dont know if that would be a wise idea, how are you going to know how much someone as spent on it? I dont know if the quialty of robot will deteriate or not with people focusing on other parts of it. Ok i maybe speaking rubbish. Just from a potential beginner i think the point raised about new bots getting completely battered is correct i dont think i dare build one and go against the likes of kr3 and pillow torque!

[psychostorm]

New featherweight builders

I know what its like in those shoes, Bex. Believe me. Though, when I finish my own and can make my way up Nottingham way, you can pilot mine if you want.

[bex]

New featherweight builders

Now theres an offer i cant refuse

[psychostorm]

New featherweight builders

How can you miss an object out of an entire sentence?

Though, when I finish my own robot and can make my way up Nottingham way, you can pilot mine if you want.

[bex]

New featherweight builders

LOL well im sure it will be sooner than i finish my non-existant one

[RogueTwoRobots]

New featherweight builders

I think the Rexs Challenge rules would provide a good starting platform for a lower power/cost/destruction featherweight category- although a few mods to the rules may be beneficial.

Something like:

DRIVE MOTORS - must be ex-car windscreen wiper motors. You can modify the motors however you want. Include drills (possibly DeWalts, Im not sure on that matter) and gold motors as forms of drive - since watching two slow WW bots can become a bit boring.
PNEUMATICS - for flip-ups, self-righting mechanisms and other weapons are encouraged. All systems must use a maximum of 50psi air pressure. Increase the pressure limit to 150 p.s.i to allow for proper flips rather than the tip-over style flips that are usually the result of 50 p.s.i flippers.
Possibly include spinners but either limit the revs or the motor choice.
Then include the power light, removeable link rules etc.

That may provide a base for working on but thats only my opinion.

Feel free to deliberate

Regards,
Lenny

[typhoon_driver]

New featherweight builders

I really wouldn€™t bother with spinners as there are far too many variables to consider with regards to design. You could put a limit of 1kg on the weight but that means nothing as you could have that 1kg spinning at a diameter of 1m. A limit on kinetic energy wouldn€™t do much either as a spinner could have a lot of kinetic energy but it is about how that energy is delivered. 2 big cutters which slam all the energy into the opponent in 1 big hit are going to cause more damage than a disc with 60 teeth that slowly grind away the opponents armour. I could go on but I won€™t. I think if such a class were to be created then spinners wouldn€™t be able to take part.

It should concentrate more on the engineering side of it, ie does it look good, does it do the job. If you want spinning weapons then go for angle grinding discs or saw blades, back to the series 1 and 2 weapons. Still interesting, makes sparks and noise, just doesn€™t cause a lot of damage.

Just my 2 cents

[mjm]

New featherweight builders

Go for something that can be built with easy to get (= low price or sponsoring) materials from the modelcar or DIY shop. No spinners but promote other moving (and show-)weapons if possible. Maybe a minimum part of the total weight for sacrificial props. Something that doesn´t need a lot of arena space (play at schools) but can still be seen by an audience at fairs.
I would go for 3 classes: Raptors(*) for entrance level and fun, the current feathers to step up a bit and have fun, heavies as top show monsters to have the ultimate fun.

*) Raptors are a ready 6 kg class, populair in Germany and Scandinavia.

(Message edited by mjm on October 14, 2005)

[typhoon_driver]

New featherweight builders

I think it would be too much of a jump from 6kg to 12kg.

Yes you could use the same motors etc but remember this is meant to be a beginers class that is meant to make it as easy as possible to move to the featherweights. What easier way than just entering the robot you already have in another class? With a few upgrades of course.

[bobblebot2]

New featherweight builders

As somebody who is just putting a few plans together for a possible featherweight, I would have to say that I do not personally have a very stong opinion about an entry level class as part of the risk of taking part in a battle is the damage that might occure. I am willing to except that.

I can understand, however, that completely new people to the sport (I have been a fan and building an antweight for a few years now) would very much appreciate a reduced entry level class. I was at the Saturday show and the 3:00 Sunday show at the Roaming Robots event in Portmouth last week end and from what most people in the audiance were saying around me, they were impressed by the power of Pillow Torque and the other featherweights.

The current feather weights are definitly crowd pleasers, but for would-be-roboteer pleasers perhaps an entry level class that actually makes them think I can do that would be good for getting them involved.

(Message edited by bobblebot2 on October 14, 2005)