Dump valve access

[Mouldy]

Dump valve access

Paul ill put it across to the powers at the next meeting i attend. Or atleast try persuade the other marshalls at the events to use one tool. I myself am a marshall for robotslive! and i dont see a problem, If everyone standardised to an access pannel or an M10 nut thats reachable within.. say 100mm of the bodywork then the marshall could have.. as you suggest a 17mm T-bar 200mm long. i dont think thats un reasonable.

And from a roboteers point of view.. i dont like having a big opening or a hinged flap on my machine.. its just a pointless weakness to the machine.

Pete lale? Alan young? Any other marshalls opinions?

[geoff]

Dump valve access

Gentlemen,
The build rules are clear.. without the use of tools
That said, if it can be agreed that one standard tool be used then I dont see a problem (subject to a properly discussed and voted on change to the build rules)
Although if the valve is only accessable with a tool via a hole in the bodywork, how do we get round the potential problem of bodywork damage preventing access to the valve?
However, Im not at all happy with this business of having to turn over or tip a machine on its side to access the valve. Rembember we recently mandated a second removable link on some machines precicely for that reason.
I would be very dubious about passing any pneumatic machine at tech check that required to be turned over to access the valve. In fact, I would more than likely fail it!

[maddox]

Dump valve access

Yes guys, more rules will further the creativity involved building robots. Especialy the rule neglected pneumatics are really in need.

I just would think that if a tool is needed to open/close the bottle/dump valve everybody uses the same tool. But dont restict the people to that. Acces hatches or just open holes in the armor do the trick as wel. Those served us for years and baring some stupidities without any serious effect it has proven rather save.

Just make sure the techcheckers and the arena marshal agree on the safety aspect of a bottle/dump valve setup. Thats enough if you ask me.
Of course, sooner or later somebody can turn up with an inherently unsafe setup, and then its to the techcheckers to advise the event organisers that the machine cant compete with that setup.

But dont forget, the machines, even the ants, are build to destroy armored metal machines. Those tools of destruction we create arent cuddly teddybears or RC controled foamcovered bumpercars.

[Mouldy]

Dump valve access

Geoff, if the pannel should become so mashed up that the bottle carnt be shut off then all the gas can still be dumped out of the system via the dumpvalve. Which i have to agree with you, i dont like them being under the machine either as i said earlyer.

People argue about the position of the dump valve during arming up.. i dont care about that.. i close my dump valve when im waiting to be told to arm up, so i dont forget when im in a rush..its not a big safety danger.. Its diss-arming that worrys me.. id hate to go upto a heavyweight thats got gas in it, lift it onto its side then dump it. Id rather flick the valve and stand back while it vents. If we allow feathers to do somthing- its only fair that heavyweights can abide by the same rules.. in my opinion niether weight class should have the dump valves on the bottom of the machine.

Why is it so hard to have a pipe going to the valve accessable from the top of the machine?

[woody]

Dump valve access

I totally agree on standardising a tool ... I really dislike disarming my pneumatic bots by accessing the inside with my hand....my current feather somersaults if it fires and the heavy nearly turns itself over....not nice if your arm is inside the bot.

[maddox]

Dump valve access

The dumpvalve, no problem with a bit of creativity.

But the placement of a CO2 bottle in a feather is more of a problem. Shape and function dictate the location of that bottle and valve.

[Mouldy]

Dump valve access

@ Mario i wasnt suggesting everyone changes to the tool option, just those who would rather not stick there hands in the machine to turn it on/off. By all means keep your hatch, Id personaly rather use a tool though.

[leorcc]

Dump valve access

The Gas on/off valves on the hannibalitos are on the bottles directly in front of you when you put them on their sides (which i fully intend to keep on doing no matter what anyone tells me) not obscured by anything so you can gas up without your hand in the robot. No hatch, no cover, just a hole or nothing at all.

Id rather have the arena marhall dumps everything with the bottle open so there is no gas left to fire than have him close the bottle first and then dump but thats just me.

If you cant turn one of the hannibalitos over to reach the dump valve from the hatch you could do it from the bottom I suppose but that would require you to put your hand all the way down, and then opening the screw. The link could be done the same way. But I would rather just flip the thing over, its only 12 to 13.6 kg.

With the heavies I agree there is a case to be made for a tool. If people feel its safer for them to do it with a tool (I know Team Compactory uses a tool for their heavyweight Hard whenever they are allowed to) by all means use a tool. But then please make it a standard tool so the arena marshalls dont get 15 different tools for 15 different robots and there is always 1 said tool handy near the arena.

Regarding dump and links: I am not happy with the link in Obsidian for instance so I am going to fit a second one for the bottom. I dont know how yet but it will be there. I think the dump could be done the same way. All it takes is a little creativity and common sense to see what works and what not.

Will, with regards to your feather, id rather have it so you could dump the gas without the locking pin because that is an extra step an arena marshall has to do and specially with feathers they already have huge numbers to deactivate after each fight. The simpeler it is to disarm the better it is for everyone involved.

[Mouldy]

Dump valve access

Id rather have the arena marhall dumps everything with the bottle open so there is no gas left to fire than have him close the bottle first and then dump but thats just me

Me too, but i think the idea was to conserve gas at events, but pretty much everyone dumps it all when they re-fill anyhow to chill the bottles..

apart from that.. you basically agree with the standardised tool rule set for heavyweights? I would be happy to run with a 17mm socket or T-bar as paul suggested.

Geoff- your the man that would go about setting this rule in stone. How do we go about doing that? I understand it will probably need bringing up at the next FRA meeting.. then what?

[geoff]

Dump valve access

Dave, I hope that there will be a meeting in June. (either the 7th or the 21st)
Im more than happy to put it on the agenda, to save you having to write a proposal can you attend and explain this to the commitee and hopefully we can agree a form of words that covers it.
There would then be a vote, and if passed would come into effect after 90 days (as per the constitution)

[Mouldy]

Dump valve access

Yep, Cheers Geoff, Ill try my best to be there.

[stu]

Dump valve access

I only beleive tools were not used to dis-arm robots due to the fact that roboteers used to disarm their bots and if a tool is needed and the roboteers is not about due to whatever reason? (faints due to winning) and the robot is out of control and someone needs to disarm it and a tool is needed, then there are problems.

But if a standardised tool is set, then any arena marshal can have the tool and be fine.

I never went to major pneumatics (even though i wanted to) due to the fact of robots jumping sometimes when being armed or disarmed. I cring when some people arm/disarm the high powered pneumatic robots, and i LOVED the way Ewe 2 and M2 used to be armed/disarmed.

So good luck for the rule change guys - would make me more calm when watching you guys arm and disarm those pneuamtic beasts!!

Mr Stu

[geoff]

Dump valve access

Just one thought Dave, are you proposing that this standard tool could be used to open / close the dump valve, the bottle or both?

[Mouldy]

Dump valve access

Thanks for the support there stu-

Geoff- Just the bottle. I dont find the dump valve as much as a threat- as (with alot of bots) the dump valve is near the link anyhow- and its only a quick thing to dissarm (lift a small arm) as is pulling the link..a quick thing to do..

Its the amount of time you put urself at risk when opening and closing a bottle that worries me.

(Message edited by mr_turbulence on May 15, 200

[geoff]

Dump valve access

Thanks Dave, thats what I thought, but just wanted to be sure.
Do you think there is a need for some wording on the location of said dump valve? I.E. safely accessable / next to link?